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If you download a .deb file on Ubuntu, click on it, it will install it and do all the right things. There is Windows files also distributed as zip files, just

by rtpg 4y ago

If you download a .deb file on Ubuntu, click on it, it will install it and do all the right things. There is Windows files also distributed as zip files, just as unusable.

Gigachad 4y ago
The problem is deb files don’t work on all distros and browsers tend to hide the specific distro from the user agent for privacy. Never link to a deb or rpm as the primary “download”. It should be a flatpak or app image and then an advanced options section for distro specific packages.
- smaudet 4y ago
  The problem is flatpack/appimage are equally bad/opaque, they solve one problem at the expense of being better off just in windows or osx. tar.gz is opaque in a different way - the solution would be more like an interpreter - something which has a good guess how you should install/run the file. There is the issue also of integration with the distribution, this is a problem with distribution apis - package maintainers are invested in their formats and distribution list not solid apis with which to interact. If you could build against such a set of Apis you could bundle an interpreter which just knows what to do. Tar.gz is a hell of a lot simpler than any other format, it's not the issue, it's the desktop distros who are underfunded/at fault.
lproven 4y ago
> If you download a .deb file on Ubuntu, click on it, it will install it Yes, this is true. But it is no help on RPM-family distros, or Arch-family ones, or Alpine or Void or whatever. > and do all the right things. No, mostly, it won't. Because the file won't be added to the OS's list of repositories and it will never get updated. This is not automatic behaviour, but it can be: Google does this right. Do this with Chrome or Google Earth or whatever and it just magically happens, and that is the Right Thing™. https://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/ https://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/
- usrn 4y ago
  The "right thing" is submitting a patch to popular distros to have your package included in the repos. IME: it's always application devs who are upset about this, not users.
  - lproven 4y ago
    No, I disagree. I can see at least 3 reasons: [1] That will happen in time anyway. This is a flagship app. [2] I would not expect any distro to include a major version in its stable release. So, even if they do that, it will take months to percolate out. [3] When it happens, it will need an OS version upgrade. This is a standalone app release, not an OS release. It is in many OSes and it will make its way to them in time. You are conflating 2 different things. The question we are discussing here is: I run T'bird on my own box, and I want to try the new version; how do I do that? There are 2 possible solutions to this: either provide distro-native packages (as Google does; this is mainly appropriate to proprietary apps, which T'bird is not); or, provide some kind of cross-distro package. Since both Snap and Flatpak need support tools installed, and AppImage does not, that makes AppImage the best choice, IMHO. Snapcraft and Flathub will do their own thing in time. On which note, T'bird 102 is already on Snapcraft, but it does not pick up existing T'bird settings or profiles.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- faemir 4y ago
  How many of these inexperienced linux users are running Arch linux?
  - lproven 4y ago
    It is an _example_. OTOH do not forget that Arch is a family of distros now, not a single distro, just as Debian is. In fact I suspect that it is the 2nd biggest family of distros, after Debian. Debian encompasses many dozens: Ubuntu, plus dozens of Ubuntu derivatives including Mint, Elementary, PopOS, ZorinOS, Linux Lite etc.; LMDE; Devuan; MX Linux; SpiralLinux; etc. etc. Arch now encompasses at least Manjaro, EndeavourOS, Garuda and more. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch-based_distributions https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch-based_distributions But that is not the point. The point is that _tens of millions_ are running non-Debian-derived distros, mostly ChromeOS and CloudReady/ChromeOS Flex. Offering a .deb package is _not_ a useful approach to offering a generic Linux package, no.
Nextgrid 4y ago
I believe the GUI-based DEB installed was removed from recent Debian/Ubuntu versions. You can of course install it from the CLI but that's terrible from a user experience point of view.

by rtpg 4y ago

If you download a .deb file on Ubuntu, click on it, it will install it and do all the right things. There is Windows files also distributed as zip files, just as unusable.

Gigachad 4y ago

The problem is deb files don’t work on all distros and browsers tend to hide the specific distro from the user agent for privacy. Never link to a deb or rpm as the primary “download”. It should be a flatpak or app image and then an advanced options section for distro specific packages.

smaudet 4y ago
The problem is flatpack/appimage are equally bad/opaque, they solve one problem at the expense of being better off just in windows or osx. tar.gz is opaque in a different way - the solution would be more like an interpreter - something which has a good guess how you should install/run the file. There is the issue also of integration with the distribution, this is a problem with distribution apis - package maintainers are invested in their formats and distribution list not solid apis with which to interact. If you could build against such a set of Apis you could bundle an interpreter which just knows what to do. Tar.gz is a hell of a lot simpler than any other format, it's not the issue, it's the desktop distros who are underfunded/at fault.

lproven 4y ago

> If you download a .deb file on Ubuntu, click on it, it will install it Yes, this is true. But it is no help on RPM-family distros, or Arch-family ones, or Alpine or Void or whatever. > and do all the right things. No, mostly, it won't. Because the file won't be added to the OS's list of repositories and it will never get updated. This is not automatic behaviour, but it can be: Google does this right. Do this with Chrome or Google Earth or whatever and it just magically happens, and that is the Right Thing™. https://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/ https://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/

usrn 4y ago
The "right thing" is submitting a patch to popular distros to have your package included in the repos. IME: it's always application devs who are upset about this, not users.
- lproven 4y ago
  No, I disagree. I can see at least 3 reasons: [1] That will happen in time anyway. This is a flagship app. [2] I would not expect any distro to include a major version in its stable release. So, even if they do that, it will take months to percolate out. [3] When it happens, it will need an OS version upgrade. This is a standalone app release, not an OS release. It is in many OSes and it will make its way to them in time. You are conflating 2 different things. The question we are discussing here is: I run T'bird on my own box, and I want to try the new version; how do I do that? There are 2 possible solutions to this: either provide distro-native packages (as Google does; this is mainly appropriate to proprietary apps, which T'bird is not); or, provide some kind of cross-distro package. Since both Snap and Flatpak need support tools installed, and AppImage does not, that makes AppImage the best choice, IMHO. Snapcraft and Flathub will do their own thing in time. On which note, T'bird 102 is already on Snapcraft, but it does not pick up existing T'bird settings or profiles.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
faemir 4y ago
How many of these inexperienced linux users are running Arch linux?
- lproven 4y ago
  It is an _example_. OTOH do not forget that Arch is a family of distros now, not a single distro, just as Debian is. In fact I suspect that it is the 2nd biggest family of distros, after Debian. Debian encompasses many dozens: Ubuntu, plus dozens of Ubuntu derivatives including Mint, Elementary, PopOS, ZorinOS, Linux Lite etc.; LMDE; Devuan; MX Linux; SpiralLinux; etc. etc. Arch now encompasses at least Manjaro, EndeavourOS, Garuda and more. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch-based_distributions https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch-based_distributions But that is not the point. The point is that _tens of millions_ are running non-Debian-derived distros, mostly ChromeOS and CloudReady/ChromeOS Flex. Offering a .deb package is _not_ a useful approach to offering a generic Linux package, no.

Nextgrid 4y ago

I believe the GUI-based DEB installed was removed from recent Debian/Ubuntu versions. You can of course install it from the CLI but that's terrible from a user experience point of view.