3 ms·

> Storage beyond a week or two will not be needed, most places. Here's [1] the solar electricity production by month in Germany. It's about 6 times higher in t

> Storage beyond a week or two will not be needed, most places. Here's [1] the solar electricity production by month in Germany. It's about 6 times higher in the Summer compared to Winter. The situation is the same everywhere on the planet at similar latitudes. It's worse at higher latitudes. Unfortunately, a lot of the world's population lives exactly at those latitudes. You could say that you supplement with wind, since wind does not have the same seasonality problem. But then why build solar at all? If you build solar, then you will have a winter deficit, and you will need a Summer to Winter storage solution. [1] https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/monthly-generation-of-solar-pv-in-germany https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/monthly-gener...

ncmncm 4y ago
You will not need a lot of local storage because if your local storage looks likely to get low, you will order a shipment of that same ammonia or hydrogen just discussed. You install lots of solar because it is cheap and still getting cheaper faster than wind is. When you have an excess, you synthesize ammonia and hydrogen for sale. Other people will be doing that, too, but there will be insatiable demand for both. In particular, fertilizer is demanded mainly in warmer months, and farm equipment need their fuel then. When tankage is full and generating capacity exceeds your fuel synthesis capacity, you might use the excess to capture and sequester atmospheric carbon. If you have geology compatible with underground storage, you can put any excess hydrogen synthesized down there to draw upon later. Extracting that is just like extracting NG. Some places, it will be where NG used to be got from, for uses where you don't mind some mixed in. Anyone who does not want to install solar and/or wind may import all their ammonia and hydrogen, from the tropics when not from local producers.
- credit_guy 4y ago
  If you have a solution that includes battery for daily storage and hydrogen for long term, it's not clear where you can fit intermediate term storage. That intermediate term storage will need to be more economical than just increasing a bit the hydrogen capacity. Right now we smooth the peaks using "peaker plants", i.e. turbine engines that burn natural gas. Those can be converted to burn hydrogen. You then need the intermediate term storage to be cheaper than the cost of storing some extra hydrogen, but that seems to be extremely unlikely.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    There are plenty of storage options besides batteries and hydrogen. Almost all will be cheaper than hydrogen, one way or another. Hydrogen is expensive but has unique virtues for specific cases. E.g., liquified, it is perfect aviation fuel. It is necessary input for synthesizing ammonia and hydrocarbons, and numerous other chemicals and industrial processes. But it is expensive, difficult, and dangerous to handle, so you don't when you can avoid it.
euroderf 4y ago
Over the longer term tho there's a long-term trend that winter heating needs will decline while summer cooling requirements will rise (and probably skyrocket).

ncmncm 4y ago

You will not need a lot of local storage because if your local storage looks likely to get low, you will order a shipment of that same ammonia or hydrogen just discussed. You install lots of solar because it is cheap and still getting cheaper faster than wind is. When you have an excess, you synthesize ammonia and hydrogen for sale. Other people will be doing that, too, but there will be insatiable demand for both. In particular, fertilizer is demanded mainly in warmer months, and farm equipment need their fuel then. When tankage is full and generating capacity exceeds your fuel synthesis capacity, you might use the excess to capture and sequester atmospheric carbon. If you have geology compatible with underground storage, you can put any excess hydrogen synthesized down there to draw upon later. Extracting that is just like extracting NG. Some places, it will be where NG used to be got from, for uses where you don't mind some mixed in. Anyone who does not want to install solar and/or wind may import all their ammonia and hydrogen, from the tropics when not from local producers.

credit_guy 4y ago
If you have a solution that includes battery for daily storage and hydrogen for long term, it's not clear where you can fit intermediate term storage. That intermediate term storage will need to be more economical than just increasing a bit the hydrogen capacity. Right now we smooth the peaks using "peaker plants", i.e. turbine engines that burn natural gas. Those can be converted to burn hydrogen. You then need the intermediate term storage to be cheaper than the cost of storing some extra hydrogen, but that seems to be extremely unlikely.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  There are plenty of storage options besides batteries and hydrogen. Almost all will be cheaper than hydrogen, one way or another. Hydrogen is expensive but has unique virtues for specific cases. E.g., liquified, it is perfect aviation fuel. It is necessary input for synthesizing ammonia and hydrocarbons, and numerous other chemicals and industrial processes. But it is expensive, difficult, and dangerous to handle, so you don't when you can avoid it.

euroderf 4y ago

Over the longer term tho there's a long-term trend that winter heating needs will decline while summer cooling requirements will rise (and probably skyrocket).