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Childcare. My daughter is 3 and we were able to find a babysitter for a few hours once in her life and that was a fight. The previous generation has decided the

Childcare. My daughter is 3 and we were able to find a babysitter for a few hours once in her life and that was a fight. The previous generation has decided they don't want to participate in child care like their parents did (I've heard this from friends as well) and as a result my wife and I don't get to go out to dinner together.

trhoad 4y ago
I find it pretty mind-boggling that there is the assumption that your parents owe you time to look after your kids...
upveto 4y ago
Is childcare stigmatized, or is the price floor higher than you're willing to pay? Maybe both and they're related? This is interesting.
- nvahalik 4y ago
  Smaller families mean that children don’t participate like they used to. Electronics mean that kids do their own thing. Family life doesn’t seem as “close” as it once was.
  - qwertyX99 4y ago
    ELectronics is not the problem. Its a symptom of kids not being able to play outside (If streets were filled with kids like they used to in the old days, do you think your child would prefer the ipad?) Kids cant play outside because the outside is filled with 2 tons killer machines i.e cars r/fuckcars r/bancars
    - galfarragem 4y ago
      > Kids cant play outside because the outside is filled with 2 tons killer machines i.e cars r/fuckcars r/bancars Kids can't play outside because parents don't allow them to. Single childs were traditionally more protected once they are naturally considered more "precious" and they are slowly becoming the norm. Large family's kids still play outside specially the ones from poor families.
      - actfrench 4y ago
        I have friends that bring their computer or ipad to the park and work while the kids play.
        galfarragem 4y ago
        Some anecdata: where I live, gypsy and african descent kids play all afternoon (or all day during weekends and school holidays) outside with minor if any parents guidance. Other kids, rarely.
      - qwertyX99 4y ago
        I meant play outside unsupervised like in the old days. Why don't parents allow them outside (unsupervised)? One big reason is due to cars(also due to over-hyped media stories about kidnapping). Think about it, would you let your kids play outside? If you dont have kids, trust me you wouldn't. Not to mention its not even legal anymore, social services get called if they see a 10 year old outside alone (UK where I live)
        zaphar 4y ago
        We raised our kids in a large city in America. Perhaps we just bypassed this trend but we totally let our kids play outside unsupervised. We set boundaries and taught them the necessary skills to do so safely but then we let the go and play. And we lived on a pretty busy street. There are age considerations of course and we had a large family for the time (5 kids) so there was a wide range of ages with the elder kids watching the younger ones. Maye we are just outliers but I don't think the reason is necessarily cars.
      - actfrench 4y ago
        Yes, there's a whole movement around Risky Play and not coddling your kids. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/parenting/risky-play.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/parenting/risky-play.html
  - actfrench 4y ago
    There's a photo I saw recently of a family sitting together on the couch - each person on their iphone. Particularly post-pandemic, it's hard to go backwards and get kids off their devices. I think it is perfectly good for families to set a boundary around this and insist on tech free time together, or just take everyone to the park with no wifi available. We can create the culture that we want in our homes.
  - runjake 4y ago
    Electronics helped in getting the kids outside more. They have more freedom and independence and we can keep track of them and get in touch with them when needed. We also set their iPhones with a green "Uber" iOS Shortcut button that they can press and it will auto-text us a "Pick me up", along with the address and lat/lng of their location. We have another red "SOS" button that does the same and triggers a different response.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  We send her to daycare but wouldn't be comfortable hiring a random babysitter we don't know to watch her. When I was a kid, I was with grandma and grandpa quite often, probably once a week on average. They would pick me up and take me out at least once a month.
  - actfrench 4y ago
    I definitely can see that hiring a "random babysitter" would be uncomfortable and a terrible thing to do for your child. Here are some ways to find a trusted sitter: Ask for referrals from your local parent group Ask for referrals from professors at your local college/university Actors can be wonderful babysitters. They are somewhat overqualified and need Hire from your local afterschool program Hire one of your daycare teachers Search care.com and sittercity for works like Montessori and Waldorf. You can find trained sitters there. Consider a service like Safesitter that certifies babysitters In order to establish trust with your child, pay them to have a playdate with you and your child present so you can get to know them.
- actfrench 4y ago
  Seems like they are uncomfortable leaving their child with someone they don't know well and the child is EXTREMELY uncomfortable with it:)
- sethammons 4y ago
  15 years ago, due to poor earnings, had my wife gone to work, she would have only earned $20 per day after day care expenses were taken out. We opted for her staying at home.
subpixel 4y ago
Even forms of childcare are problematic as a working parent, because they all tend to end by about 3pm - school, day camp, daycare etc. Meanwhile in my wife’s native country anyone with a job can afford a full time nanny. Sadly this is because people are living in near poverty, but a nanny in the US is a $70k/year or more scenario. So I am tempted to move and participate in the broken system and make myself feel better by overpaying 100%.
- actfrench 4y ago
  Childcare is extremely expensive in this country. One good option I've seen is people hiring an au pair. The kids might be able to become bilingual and a young person gets a great experience living in a new place. Nanny shares can also be a great option.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- swah 4y ago
  Are you talking about Brazil by any means?
mechagodzilla 4y ago
My child is in daycare, and pretty much every employee at the daycare center also does babysitting on the side.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  That's a good idea, maybe ask around there. We wouldn't want to hire someone she doesn't know off craigslist or similar.
jjeaff 4y ago
So you have friends who have stated they have the same problem, why not make a deal with them and trade off? You take their kids one Friday night and then they take yours the next.
- actfrench 4y ago
  This is definitely my favorite approach. I've found that Friday night date swaps are the best kind of swaps because they are so simple. Can be tricky with a younger child (Age 3) because they have an early bedtime and are too little for sleepovers, but one option (if there are two people in both couples) is that one parent goes over to the other parent's house and watches the friend's child while the other parent stays home and watches their child. And then they get a date night credit! So you're not in fact watching two kids at the same time, you're just giving a night of babysitting to get one in return.
actfrench 4y ago
Thanks so much Will. I agree that this is the biggest strain that most parents face. With regards to grandparents opting out of childcare: Wow. I'm really sorry to hear that your parents (I'm assuming that's what you mean by the previous generation) isn't willing to participate. This is actually the first time that I've heard this trend, so I'm surprised and troubled you've heard it from others. In the past, I tended to diagnose this problem as one of nuclear families moving away from grandparents, cousins and uncles (as it doesn't seem to be an issue for friends of mine in countries such as Iran where families live closer together, even if both parents are working). I'm curious to know why the grandparents aren't helping. Is it lack of desire? Is it because they are still working and don't have time/energy to help with the kids? Is it because they had to pay for babysitters and expect you to do the same? I'm really curious to learn more about this if you or any of your friends would be open to a chat. With regards to separation anxiety: It also sounds that your daughter is feeling, very naturally, attached and not wanting you to leave for a few hours, which can be really hard. In the past, I really encourage parents to prioritize self-care for the well-being of their child. It can be hard to see a young child cry and complain, but remember that by taking a few hours for dinner to strengthen your relationship with your partner, you are being incredibly kind to your child (by keeping the relationship that supports her safe). Even if a child cries and complains, I suggest that parents explain in very vivid detail why this going out is the best for their well being. You can honor her feelings of sadness at the separation and share your own feelings of being sad that you'll be apart - and then leave. Boundaries are love. Adele Faber wrote a phenomenal book called "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk." I think it is hands down the best book on compassionately communicating boundaries to children. With regards to finances: I'm reading this into it since you'd prefer to have your parents help rather than pay someone, have you considered a child care share? I've heard from many families that participating in a babysitting co-op or care share has been one of the most rich and rewarding experiences of their life. I've written quite a bit about childcare shares but your post and some requests from friends have inspired me to write a new blog about this topic.
- actfrench 4y ago
  One other item I'd add to this is that as a single person with no children and no nephews or nieces, I love babysitting my friends' kids for free. In our culture, it often feels uncomfortable to ask friends to do a favor like, this but it can be really gratifying for both parties. Here's a blog about why I babysit for free - and how I get as much as I give. https://manisharoses.medium.com/why-i-babysit-for-free-b311b5850a04 https://manisharoses.medium.com/why-i-babysit-for-free-b311b...
runjake 4y ago
Just wanted to say it gets better. Stick with it. I have now 13-year old triplets. We've been able to go out for a couple years now, but I remember those early days. Everyone offers to watch the kids, but nobody actually says yes when the time comes. They're always busy. Be sure to jerryrig at-home dates after the kid goes to bed. Sit on the patio with some wine or whatever, and a baby monitor. Something is better than nothing, so you and your spouse don't feel like roommates more than partners.
- actfrench 4y ago
  Love these suggestions. Patios are the best. Good for you for hacking a solution together:) Taking the kid out in the yard and watching a movie while they play can be fun too. By the way, cool word:) https://www.dictionary.com/e/jury-rigged-vs-jerry-rigged/#:~:text=In%20everyday%20speech%2C%20the%20word,the%20same%20as%20jury%2Drigged https://www.dictionary.com/e/jury-rigged-vs-jerry-rigged/#:~....
ejb999 4y ago
We had the same experience - raised 5 kids, not a single time did any of our 4 living parents offer to watch the kids even for a few hours - we thought that was unique to us and our parents, didn't realize it was a trend ... On the flip side though, now that my kids are approaching child-rearing ages, both of us (spouse and I) can't wait to babysit and spend time with the grandkids when they come - we are already jealous that the in-laws might get them more than we do.

trhoad 4y ago

I find it pretty mind-boggling that there is the assumption that your parents owe you time to look after your kids...

upveto 4y ago

Is childcare stigmatized, or is the price floor higher than you're willing to pay? Maybe both and they're related? This is interesting.

nvahalik 4y ago
Smaller families mean that children don’t participate like they used to. Electronics mean that kids do their own thing. Family life doesn’t seem as “close” as it once was.
- qwertyX99 4y ago
  ELectronics is not the problem. Its a symptom of kids not being able to play outside (If streets were filled with kids like they used to in the old days, do you think your child would prefer the ipad?) Kids cant play outside because the outside is filled with 2 tons killer machines i.e cars r/fuckcars r/bancars
  - galfarragem 4y ago
    > Kids cant play outside because the outside is filled with 2 tons killer machines i.e cars r/fuckcars r/bancars Kids can't play outside because parents don't allow them to. Single childs were traditionally more protected once they are naturally considered more "precious" and they are slowly becoming the norm. Large family's kids still play outside specially the ones from poor families.
    - actfrench 4y ago
      I have friends that bring their computer or ipad to the park and work while the kids play.
      - galfarragem 4y ago
        Some anecdata: where I live, gypsy and african descent kids play all afternoon (or all day during weekends and school holidays) outside with minor if any parents guidance. Other kids, rarely.
    - qwertyX99 4y ago
      I meant play outside unsupervised like in the old days. Why don't parents allow them outside (unsupervised)? One big reason is due to cars(also due to over-hyped media stories about kidnapping). Think about it, would you let your kids play outside? If you dont have kids, trust me you wouldn't. Not to mention its not even legal anymore, social services get called if they see a 10 year old outside alone (UK where I live)
      - zaphar 4y ago
        We raised our kids in a large city in America. Perhaps we just bypassed this trend but we totally let our kids play outside unsupervised. We set boundaries and taught them the necessary skills to do so safely but then we let the go and play. And we lived on a pretty busy street. There are age considerations of course and we had a large family for the time (5 kids) so there was a wide range of ages with the elder kids watching the younger ones. Maye we are just outliers but I don't think the reason is necessarily cars.
    - actfrench 4y ago
      Yes, there's a whole movement around Risky Play and not coddling your kids. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/parenting/risky-play.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/parenting/risky-play.html
- actfrench 4y ago
  There's a photo I saw recently of a family sitting together on the couch - each person on their iphone. Particularly post-pandemic, it's hard to go backwards and get kids off their devices. I think it is perfectly good for families to set a boundary around this and insist on tech free time together, or just take everyone to the park with no wifi available. We can create the culture that we want in our homes.
- runjake 4y ago
  Electronics helped in getting the kids outside more. They have more freedom and independence and we can keep track of them and get in touch with them when needed. We also set their iPhones with a green "Uber" iOS Shortcut button that they can press and it will auto-text us a "Pick me up", along with the address and lat/lng of their location. We have another red "SOS" button that does the same and triggers a different response.
willcipriano 4y ago
We send her to daycare but wouldn't be comfortable hiring a random babysitter we don't know to watch her. When I was a kid, I was with grandma and grandpa quite often, probably once a week on average. They would pick me up and take me out at least once a month.
- actfrench 4y ago
  I definitely can see that hiring a "random babysitter" would be uncomfortable and a terrible thing to do for your child. Here are some ways to find a trusted sitter: Ask for referrals from your local parent group Ask for referrals from professors at your local college/university Actors can be wonderful babysitters. They are somewhat overqualified and need Hire from your local afterschool program Hire one of your daycare teachers Search care.com and sittercity for works like Montessori and Waldorf. You can find trained sitters there. Consider a service like Safesitter that certifies babysitters In order to establish trust with your child, pay them to have a playdate with you and your child present so you can get to know them.
actfrench 4y ago
Seems like they are uncomfortable leaving their child with someone they don't know well and the child is EXTREMELY uncomfortable with it:)
sethammons 4y ago
15 years ago, due to poor earnings, had my wife gone to work, she would have only earned $20 per day after day care expenses were taken out. We opted for her staying at home.

subpixel 4y ago

Even forms of childcare are problematic as a working parent, because they all tend to end by about 3pm - school, day camp, daycare etc. Meanwhile in my wife’s native country anyone with a job can afford a full time nanny. Sadly this is because people are living in near poverty, but a nanny in the US is a $70k/year or more scenario. So I am tempted to move and participate in the broken system and make myself feel better by overpaying 100%.

actfrench 4y ago
Childcare is extremely expensive in this country. One good option I've seen is people hiring an au pair. The kids might be able to become bilingual and a young person gets a great experience living in a new place. Nanny shares can also be a great option.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
swah 4y ago
Are you talking about Brazil by any means?

mechagodzilla 4y ago

My child is in daycare, and pretty much every employee at the daycare center also does babysitting on the side.

willcipriano 4y ago
That's a good idea, maybe ask around there. We wouldn't want to hire someone she doesn't know off craigslist or similar.

jjeaff 4y ago

So you have friends who have stated they have the same problem, why not make a deal with them and trade off? You take their kids one Friday night and then they take yours the next.

actfrench 4y ago
This is definitely my favorite approach. I've found that Friday night date swaps are the best kind of swaps because they are so simple. Can be tricky with a younger child (Age 3) because they have an early bedtime and are too little for sleepovers, but one option (if there are two people in both couples) is that one parent goes over to the other parent's house and watches the friend's child while the other parent stays home and watches their child. And then they get a date night credit! So you're not in fact watching two kids at the same time, you're just giving a night of babysitting to get one in return.

actfrench 4y ago

Thanks so much Will. I agree that this is the biggest strain that most parents face. With regards to grandparents opting out of childcare: Wow. I'm really sorry to hear that your parents (I'm assuming that's what you mean by the previous generation) isn't willing to participate. This is actually the first time that I've heard this trend, so I'm surprised and troubled you've heard it from others. In the past, I tended to diagnose this problem as one of nuclear families moving away from grandparents, cousins and uncles (as it doesn't seem to be an issue for friends of mine in countries such as Iran where families live closer together, even if both parents are working). I'm curious to know why the grandparents aren't helping. Is it lack of desire? Is it because they are still working and don't have time/energy to help with the kids? Is it because they had to pay for babysitters and expect you to do the same? I'm really curious to learn more about this if you or any of your friends would be open to a chat. With regards to separation anxiety: It also sounds that your daughter is feeling, very naturally, attached and not wanting you to leave for a few hours, which can be really hard. In the past, I really encourage parents to prioritize self-care for the well-being of their child. It can be hard to see a young child cry and complain, but remember that by taking a few hours for dinner to strengthen your relationship with your partner, you are being incredibly kind to your child (by keeping the relationship that supports her safe). Even if a child cries and complains, I suggest that parents explain in very vivid detail why this going out is the best for their well being. You can honor her feelings of sadness at the separation and share your own feelings of being sad that you'll be apart - and then leave. Boundaries are love. Adele Faber wrote a phenomenal book called "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk." I think it is hands down the best book on compassionately communicating boundaries to children. With regards to finances: I'm reading this into it since you'd prefer to have your parents help rather than pay someone, have you considered a child care share? I've heard from many families that participating in a babysitting co-op or care share has been one of the most rich and rewarding experiences of their life. I've written quite a bit about childcare shares but your post and some requests from friends have inspired me to write a new blog about this topic.

actfrench 4y ago
One other item I'd add to this is that as a single person with no children and no nephews or nieces, I love babysitting my friends' kids for free. In our culture, it often feels uncomfortable to ask friends to do a favor like, this but it can be really gratifying for both parties. Here's a blog about why I babysit for free - and how I get as much as I give. https://manisharoses.medium.com/why-i-babysit-for-free-b311b5850a04 https://manisharoses.medium.com/why-i-babysit-for-free-b311b...

runjake 4y ago

Just wanted to say it gets better. Stick with it. I have now 13-year old triplets. We've been able to go out for a couple years now, but I remember those early days. Everyone offers to watch the kids, but nobody actually says yes when the time comes. They're always busy. Be sure to jerryrig at-home dates after the kid goes to bed. Sit on the patio with some wine or whatever, and a baby monitor. Something is better than nothing, so you and your spouse don't feel like roommates more than partners.

actfrench 4y ago
Love these suggestions. Patios are the best. Good for you for hacking a solution together:) Taking the kid out in the yard and watching a movie while they play can be fun too. By the way, cool word:) https://www.dictionary.com/e/jury-rigged-vs-jerry-rigged/#:~:text=In%20everyday%20speech%2C%20the%20word,the%20same%20as%20jury%2Drigged https://www.dictionary.com/e/jury-rigged-vs-jerry-rigged/#:~....

ejb999 4y ago

We had the same experience - raised 5 kids, not a single time did any of our 4 living parents offer to watch the kids even for a few hours - we thought that was unique to us and our parents, didn't realize it was a trend ... On the flip side though, now that my kids are approaching child-rearing ages, both of us (spouse and I) can't wait to babysit and spend time with the grandkids when they come - we are already jealous that the in-laws might get them more than we do.