5 ms·

0 Why?

lovich 4y ago
Because that’s the level of discourse I’d expect from someone claiming that the statistics show it’s black people at fault for their over representation in police brutality instances while linking a study that has this prominently in the abstract > The SIU Director’s Reports reveal instances where there was a lack of a legal basis for police stopping Black civilians in the first place, inappropriate searches and unnecessary charges or arrests. The reports and legal decisions also raise broader concerns about officer misconduct, transparency and accountability. > The data shows an over-representation of Black people in use of force cases that result in serious injury or death. And yes I saw your edit, but no I don’t care. You’re bringing up the same tired arguments that have been discounted over and over and then you end up linking studies disproving your point but we should consider you’re replacement cherry picked article? I’ll be charitable and assume you are arguing in completely good faith. Unfortunately your topic looks _exactly_ like one that is being pushed by people lieing for political gain at the expense of an oppressed group. If you want to overcome peoples legitimate reaction to your points that are completely indistinguishable in both content and tone from racists whose arguments were proven to be based on lies and omissions, then you need to come with a much higher quality of evidence and discourse
- evandale 4y ago
  Did you find and read the report named 9082-2018-TPS-Annual-Report.pdf? You might want to do that and read it before accusing people of being racist. It has a table showing how often suspects have weapons when the police show up broken down by race. Whenever there is an argument between two sides, find the third side.
  - lovich 4y ago
    You repeated arguments that have been debunked numerous times You linked a study explicitly stating the opposite of your assumption You now want me to go through tomes of data to be convinced to your side. No, come up with something new that doesn't require us to do a bunch of work for you. Your arguments are tired and were not gonna waste more time on them.
    - evandale 4y ago
      I'll link it later then when I'm home. It's called 9082-2018-TPS-Annual-Report.pdf and it's the first result when I use these results: https://www.google.com/search?q=tps+force+report+2018+-2020+pdf https://www.google.com/search?q=tps+force+report+2018+-2020+... I've explained why I can't link directly. It's somewhere on page 52 or maybe 54. It might be in the 60s but it's in that range. There is a table you can ctrl-f for and it has stats broken down by race and the weapon the person has when police respond to calls. The third side here is that police disproportionately use force against people who have weapons. I hope you can find the table on your own because I gave you everything you need to find out. If not, I'll reply in an a few hours or so with a direct link.
    - evandale 4y ago
      Actually here it is. I finally found it but had to use Yandex. Google was giving me different results. https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/9082-2018-TPS-Annual-Report.pdf https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/9082-2018-...
      - lovich 4y ago
        lol man
        evandale 4y ago
        Alright, seriously. I'm finally somewhere with internet. The fact that this was so god damn hard to find is so telling. Look starting at page 63. I really can't believe this information is _so_ difficult to find. https://www.ohrc.on.ca/sites/default/files/Use%20of%20force%20by%20the%20Toronto%20Police%20Service%20Final%20report.pdf https://www.ohrc.on.ca/sites/default/files/Use%20of%20force%... Look at fleeing police in Table C20: Civilian actions at the time of police encounter (as concluded by the SIU), SIU use of force investigations, Toronto Police Service, 2000 – 2006 Look at resisting arrest in Table C21: Civilian actions at the time of police encounter (as concluded by the SIU), SIU use of force investigations, Toronto Police Service, 2013 – 2017 Look at who has guns and knives in Table C22: Civilian possession of a weapon at the time of police encounter (as concluded by the SIU), SIU use of force investigations, Toronto Police Service, 2000 – 2006 Look at guns and knives in Table C23: Civilian possession of a weapon at the time of police encounter (as concluded by the SIU), SIU use of force investigations, Toronto Police Service, 2013 – 2017 There's all the stats and numbers directly linked and the relevant tables. Am I still a racist? btw, this conversation would have gone a lot smoother if you had just said you didn't see the tables with the race/weapon breakdown. Then I would have realized I was linking to the wrong thing this entire time. You wanted me to be a racist so badly that you were letting me flail around looking like an idiot with irrelevant links (even though I told you my situation - I couldn't _see_ the PDF because I couldn't download it) and weren't even trying to work with me here or give me the benefit of the doubt.
  - lovich 4y ago
    Also I just have to call out separately, > Whenever there is an argument between two sides, find the third side That is not an argument. That is a value statement. If someone says the sky is blue and someone says its tie die, should I find a third person whose of the opinion that the sky is mauve? Being different doesn't make an argument correct
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

0 Why?

Because that’s the level of discourse I’d expect from someone claiming that the statistics show it’s black people at fault for their over representation in police brutality instances while linking a study that has this prominently in the abstract > The SIU Director’s Reports reveal instances where there was a lack of a legal basis for police stopping Black civilians in the first place, inappropriate searches and unnecessary charges or arrests. The reports and legal decisions also raise broader concerns about officer misconduct, transparency and accountability. > The data shows an over-representation of Black people in use of force cases that result in serious injury or death. And yes I saw your edit, but no I don’t care. You’re bringing up the same tired arguments that have been discounted over and over and then you end up linking studies disproving your point but we should consider you’re replacement cherry picked article? I’ll be charitable and assume you are arguing in completely good faith. Unfortunately your topic looks _exactly_ like one that is being pushed by people lieing for political gain at the expense of an oppressed group. If you want to overcome peoples legitimate reaction to your points that are completely indistinguishable in both content and tone from racists whose arguments were proven to be based on lies and omissions, then you need to come with a much higher quality of evidence and discourse

evandale 4y ago
Did you find and read the report named 9082-2018-TPS-Annual-Report.pdf? You might want to do that and read it before accusing people of being racist. It has a table showing how often suspects have weapons when the police show up broken down by race. Whenever there is an argument between two sides, find the third side.
- lovich 4y ago
  You repeated arguments that have been debunked numerous times You linked a study explicitly stating the opposite of your assumption You now want me to go through tomes of data to be convinced to your side. No, come up with something new that doesn't require us to do a bunch of work for you. Your arguments are tired and were not gonna waste more time on them.
  - evandale 4y ago
    I'll link it later then when I'm home. It's called 9082-2018-TPS-Annual-Report.pdf and it's the first result when I use these results: https://www.google.com/search?q=tps+force+report+2018+-2020+pdf https://www.google.com/search?q=tps+force+report+2018+-2020+... I've explained why I can't link directly. It's somewhere on page 52 or maybe 54. It might be in the 60s but it's in that range. There is a table you can ctrl-f for and it has stats broken down by race and the weapon the person has when police respond to calls. The third side here is that police disproportionately use force against people who have weapons. I hope you can find the table on your own because I gave you everything you need to find out. If not, I'll reply in an a few hours or so with a direct link.
  - evandale 4y ago
    Actually here it is. I finally found it but had to use Yandex. Google was giving me different results. https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/9082-2018-TPS-Annual-Report.pdf https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/9082-2018-...
    - lovich 4y ago
      lol man
      - evandale 4y ago
        Alright, seriously. I'm finally somewhere with internet. The fact that this was so god damn hard to find is so telling. Look starting at page 63. I really can't believe this information is _so_ difficult to find. https://www.ohrc.on.ca/sites/default/files/Use%20of%20force%20by%20the%20Toronto%20Police%20Service%20Final%20report.pdf https://www.ohrc.on.ca/sites/default/files/Use%20of%20force%... Look at fleeing police in Table C20: Civilian actions at the time of police encounter (as concluded by the SIU), SIU use of force investigations, Toronto Police Service, 2000 – 2006 Look at resisting arrest in Table C21: Civilian actions at the time of police encounter (as concluded by the SIU), SIU use of force investigations, Toronto Police Service, 2013 – 2017 Look at who has guns and knives in Table C22: Civilian possession of a weapon at the time of police encounter (as concluded by the SIU), SIU use of force investigations, Toronto Police Service, 2000 – 2006 Look at guns and knives in Table C23: Civilian possession of a weapon at the time of police encounter (as concluded by the SIU), SIU use of force investigations, Toronto Police Service, 2013 – 2017 There's all the stats and numbers directly linked and the relevant tables. Am I still a racist? btw, this conversation would have gone a lot smoother if you had just said you didn't see the tables with the race/weapon breakdown. Then I would have realized I was linking to the wrong thing this entire time. You wanted me to be a racist so badly that you were letting me flail around looking like an idiot with irrelevant links (even though I told you my situation - I couldn't _see_ the PDF because I couldn't download it) and weren't even trying to work with me here or give me the benefit of the doubt.
- lovich 4y ago
  Also I just have to call out separately, > Whenever there is an argument between two sides, find the third side That is not an argument. That is a value statement. If someone says the sky is blue and someone says its tie die, should I find a third person whose of the opinion that the sky is mauve? Being different doesn't make an argument correct
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]