4 ms·

Tantrums. Punish them? Ignore them? Give in? A flowchart would be nice.

by muzani 4y ago

pchristensen 4y ago
While a kid throwing a tantrum isn't making a rational choice to do so, they do understand the effects. If tantrums get results, then they won't have an incentive to suppress them as they mature. So don't reward them. You can still give them what they're throwing the tantrum for, if they can bring themselves back into control and ask in the right way (this works better as they get older). A lot of time, a kid throwing a tantrum has just lost control, and the best bet is to distract and divert, not try to resolve what they're tantruming about. Being able to bring their energy back down, instead of mirroring and escalating their tantrum, is key.
- amerkhalid 4y ago
  I understand the part about losing control/reptilian brain kicking in, but I still don't know how I should behave when that happens. Like if in a restaurant, do I take kid outside? What if kid is demanding to go outside, and I take him outside, is that reinforcing that tantrums works? I have read a lot of book on child psychology and still never really sure how to handle tantrums and discipline aspects.
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    I don't know the best way to handle it in public, but we always clearly state that a tantrum will not get them what they want and they will have to calm down first. We will also put them in their room for a timeout until they calm down. But I have also noticed that tantrums are highly correlated with lack of sleep. Which makes sense. Even as adults, we are much more likely to lose control and snap if we are less rested and/or stressed. This is why so many parents religiously stick to a pretty structured sleep schedule.
  - andrei_says_ 4y ago
    Here are a few viewpoints you may find useful: - tantrums happen to your child - tantrums are a regulation mechanism - your child is disregulated, their brain is overwhelmed by uncontrollable emotions and needs to flush all the stress hormones quickly to come back to normal - there is a reason for the dis-regulation. What does the child need that the environment does not provide? - in the case of a restaurant - yes, take the kid outside, give them undivided attention, give space for the emotions to get expressed and for their brain to self-regulate. - become curious about the child's needs and see the tantrums as a symptom of building frustration of some needs not being met. Common possibilities are: severely depleted "reservoirs" caused by chronically unmet needs for play, physical activity, the child having control over their body, schedule, activities, company, your attention, solitude, approval, knowing that they matter etc. - a common situation related to a restaurant is the child's need to roam, run, be physical, loud, unrestrained. One way to have well-behaved kids at the restaurant is to have a kid-guided (they have control), exhausting, loud, physical activity beforehand. You get the point. Do not try to control (the expression of) tantrums. Extend your best interpretation and create space for the tantrum to quickly unfold so your child can regulate. Change the environment and remove the root causes. Ideally, the outcome of your parenting is an adult who is capable of identifying what they need before they are in crisis, capable of providing it to themselves, and when this is not possible, capable of regulating themselves. You need to model all of these, over and over and over again. Notice what they need and help them meet the need before their emotional state gets too agitated. If a tantrum is an extreme way to "ask" for something - help them meet the need - way before reaching that stage. Source: my training as a nonviolent parenting educator.
    - andrei_says_ 4y ago
      A few additional helpful things to keep in mind: - drop any interpretations of your child's behaviors which see it as malicious. Develop a habit to see all behaviors as (often imperfect) strategies to fulfill a basic human need (https://www.cnvc.org/training/resource/needs-inventory https://www.cnvc.org/training/resource/needs-inventory). Try to guess the need and look for better strategies to fulfilling it. If impossible to fulfill the need, provide a framework for regulating the emotions arising from that. - you will often be triggered by your child behaving in certain ways. These are your triggers and your work. Many of these are trauma patterns installed during your own upbringing. Were your needs prioritized? What is your attachment style? What was your family's style of dealing with strong emotions?
- actfrench 4y ago
  I think that tantrums are a cry for help and it's important to give our kids unconditional positive regard, that there's a legitimate reason behind their tantrum, whether that's lack of sleep, need for love or sugar addiction:) Personally, I always feel de-escalated when people validate my feelings, even if they don't follow my requests. I would be concerned that by distracting and diverting a child, you actually prevent them from working through the difficult emotions they need to work through in their system.
  - andrei_says_ 4y ago
    I recommend parents shift their framing to tantrums = self-regulation process. What helps: Validation, empathy, meeting the unmet core need behind the distress, changing the environment to address the root cause for the distress. What does not help: adding more stress by threatening the child or pressuring them to control their emotional outburst. The outburst is the steam coming out of the safety valve.
ex3xu 4y ago
I took some tips from a book titled How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk - they suggest to try to help kids label their emotions, and then reaffirm those emotions are valid (even if they can't get what they want). They have various kid-friendly techniques for this in the book, one that worked for a couple of the worst tantrums I had to defuse is getting them to draw a picture of how mad they are.
- actfrench 4y ago
  Love this book. It's so important to allow children feel their feelings, allow those feelings and let them pass through them. A tantrum is a cry for help: what do they need, sleep? food? just to vent a little bit? The more you push those feelings down the more you grow. However, it's important to honor your own needs for quite and peace of mind too. If you're having trouble because you need quiet and peace, you can express those needs to your child. They may not listen but it's good for them to know. Kids are much like adults. When needs are expressed well and non-violently with sound reasoning and released expectations they often get met.
danielvf 4y ago
Father of five kids. All kids are different, so only speaking for mine. Smaller kids usually tantrum when they are overtired (or over sugared or something else affecting them) OR because they are trying to manipulate to get what they want. Once you are used to it, you can tell pretty quickly which one it is. A tired kid needs to chill down to normal and/or take a brief nap. Getting them to a quiet place for a bit is good. At home, usually just their bedroom. Some kids have individual ways we've learned of calming down once we get there. Some are just going to do their thing for fifteen minutes, and then can calm down. In either case, usually less simulation helps. We'll check to see if they've not been getting enough sleep and adjust if needed. The manipulation kind is pretty easy to deal with. Just make sure it doesn't get the desired results, stay chill yourself, and minimize the noise on other people. Our kids always seem to try on and off for a couple months, but once it clearly doesn't work, they just stop. If we are home we just let them lay on the floor and tantrum away until they get up and go back about life. If we are out, one of us would take them to the car until they are done. Escalating it by escalating it by threats/demands/punishments/drama/negotiation/fear/pleading just seems to fuel the fire. In either case it's a temporary situation that will automatically resolve itself as long as you don't escalate or encourage it. You don't have to "fix" it. This means you can be pretty chill during.
- muzani 4y ago
  All my kids tantrum for literal hours. I think the eldest used to do up to 4 hours when mom went out. Often it lasts to the point they fall asleep or vomit. A neighbor even suggested an exorcist. I think one child has realized that if they escalate it, we stop ignoring them. So instead of going on for hours, they just hit someone or do something drastic like threatening to destroy the TV. That brings in an ultimatum and they can admit defeat honorably. I don't think this is the best way to do it, though. They get plenty of sleep now - we found that it does cut it down a lot. There's a loop where they're too tired to sleep, always tired because they're not sleeping enough. So it's usually dinner at 6-7, lights out by 9. We find that being proactive works - "Mommy's going out for a few hours and will bring back ice cream if you behave." But a checklist for defusing tantrums when they happen would be nice.
  - 4y ago
actfrench 4y ago
There is a fabulous book on this topic called "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk." and "How To Talk So children Learn" It expresses this concept much better than me. Janet Lansbury also has written some great stuff on how to navigate tantrums for everyone's benefit! Here's one: https://www.janetlansbury.com/2018/12/the-best-way-to-deal-with-intense-tantrums/ https://www.janetlansbury.com/2018/12/the-best-way-to-deal-w... My thoughts: I am a huge believer with children, as with adults to validate people's emotions. And by validating, really and fully accept that they are feeling what they are feeling and there is a good reason for them feeling that way. And really try to understand what is the need they're trying to express so they are fully heard, so that their need is heard. There are few things more affirming than being seen and heard. In no ways does this mean you have to tolerate behavior that makes you feel awful, like huge intense yelps that hurt your ears. It's Ok to say I love you and I understand you are unhappy and I'm sad you are unhappy - but my ears hurt and I would appreciate if they could cry more quietly. It's surprising how when you are honest with kids about how things make you feel and impact you with love, instead of just trying to stop it, that they listen and understand. I say, put boundaries around yourself, not around the other person. Among fellow educators, we often use the term "unconditional positive regard," meaning that we give children the benefit of the doubt that they have a good reason for what they're doing. A tantrum is often an unmet need being expressed. Maybe they're tired or hungry. As much as you're able, I'd encourage you to allow the tantrum if it doesn't affect you or the people around you too negatively. The child needs to work those emotions out of their system. For example, if you're in a movie theater, you may need to take the child out. It's improtant to accept that your child has both negative and positive emotions and that's ok. They don't have to be 100% happy and entertained all the time - that's fake, that's not life. I would start by acknowledging as much as possible with love your child's emotions. "Oh honey, I see you're so sad. Are you sad that you can't have that candy? I know it's so frustrating to not have something that you can't have. It really really hurts. You feel bad. I'm not going to let you have more sugar today because that can hurt your body. I am so sad you're feeling sad. Oh you're so sad. I love you and I'm sad you're sad, etcetera. I'm going to leave you alone for a while to cry because that sound hurts my ears/because i need to work and make money, etc. But I'm right here if you need a hug. I love you, etcetera" I don't like there to be punishment, but there could be a consequence. I wouldn't give a consequence for a tantrum, because that's them expressing their emotions. But if they make life difficult for others, you could consider letting them know that they are going to be removed from the situation where they are following through Acknowledging with love is key. But you don't need to coddle either. Calmly accept, validate, try to determine what the unmet need is if you can. Establish a boundary if needed and follow through. Here is a workshop I did with Deb Vilas from Bank Street College of Education on communicating with children where we talk about validation and 3 point limit setting. It might be helpful to you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7ODQAwwKgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7ODQAwwKgo Please let me know if you have any other questions or would like to talk through this with me sometime. I'd be happy to help. I do really feel you could benefit from Janet Lansbury's podcast and Adele Faber's book though. They give techniques that actually WORK, which is great. It's not just fluff. This compassionate communication stuff actually settles kids down and helps make life easier for everyone. Plus, they don't end up unable to feel their feelings or all bottled up and resentful as adults, or entitled either!

Tantrums. Punish them? Ignore them? Give in? A flowchart would be nice.

by muzani 4y ago

Tantrums. Punish them? Ignore them? Give in? A flowchart would be nice.

While a kid throwing a tantrum isn't making a rational choice to do so, they do understand the effects. If tantrums get results, then they won't have an incentive to suppress them as they mature. So don't reward them. You can still give them what they're throwing the tantrum for, if they can bring themselves back into control and ask in the right way (this works better as they get older). A lot of time, a kid throwing a tantrum has just lost control, and the best bet is to distract and divert, not try to resolve what they're tantruming about. Being able to bring their energy back down, instead of mirroring and escalating their tantrum, is key.

amerkhalid 4y ago
I understand the part about losing control/reptilian brain kicking in, but I still don't know how I should behave when that happens. Like if in a restaurant, do I take kid outside? What if kid is demanding to go outside, and I take him outside, is that reinforcing that tantrums works? I have read a lot of book on child psychology and still never really sure how to handle tantrums and discipline aspects.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  I don't know the best way to handle it in public, but we always clearly state that a tantrum will not get them what they want and they will have to calm down first. We will also put them in their room for a timeout until they calm down. But I have also noticed that tantrums are highly correlated with lack of sleep. Which makes sense. Even as adults, we are much more likely to lose control and snap if we are less rested and/or stressed. This is why so many parents religiously stick to a pretty structured sleep schedule.
- andrei_says_ 4y ago
  Here are a few viewpoints you may find useful: - tantrums happen to your child - tantrums are a regulation mechanism - your child is disregulated, their brain is overwhelmed by uncontrollable emotions and needs to flush all the stress hormones quickly to come back to normal - there is a reason for the dis-regulation. What does the child need that the environment does not provide? - in the case of a restaurant - yes, take the kid outside, give them undivided attention, give space for the emotions to get expressed and for their brain to self-regulate. - become curious about the child's needs and see the tantrums as a symptom of building frustration of some needs not being met. Common possibilities are: severely depleted "reservoirs" caused by chronically unmet needs for play, physical activity, the child having control over their body, schedule, activities, company, your attention, solitude, approval, knowing that they matter etc. - a common situation related to a restaurant is the child's need to roam, run, be physical, loud, unrestrained. One way to have well-behaved kids at the restaurant is to have a kid-guided (they have control), exhausting, loud, physical activity beforehand. You get the point. Do not try to control (the expression of) tantrums. Extend your best interpretation and create space for the tantrum to quickly unfold so your child can regulate. Change the environment and remove the root causes. Ideally, the outcome of your parenting is an adult who is capable of identifying what they need before they are in crisis, capable of providing it to themselves, and when this is not possible, capable of regulating themselves. You need to model all of these, over and over and over again. Notice what they need and help them meet the need before their emotional state gets too agitated. If a tantrum is an extreme way to "ask" for something - help them meet the need - way before reaching that stage. Source: my training as a nonviolent parenting educator.
  - andrei_says_ 4y ago
    A few additional helpful things to keep in mind: - drop any interpretations of your child's behaviors which see it as malicious. Develop a habit to see all behaviors as (often imperfect) strategies to fulfill a basic human need (https://www.cnvc.org/training/resource/needs-inventory https://www.cnvc.org/training/resource/needs-inventory). Try to guess the need and look for better strategies to fulfilling it. If impossible to fulfill the need, provide a framework for regulating the emotions arising from that. - you will often be triggered by your child behaving in certain ways. These are your triggers and your work. Many of these are trauma patterns installed during your own upbringing. Were your needs prioritized? What is your attachment style? What was your family's style of dealing with strong emotions?
actfrench 4y ago
I think that tantrums are a cry for help and it's important to give our kids unconditional positive regard, that there's a legitimate reason behind their tantrum, whether that's lack of sleep, need for love or sugar addiction:) Personally, I always feel de-escalated when people validate my feelings, even if they don't follow my requests. I would be concerned that by distracting and diverting a child, you actually prevent them from working through the difficult emotions they need to work through in their system.
- andrei_says_ 4y ago
  I recommend parents shift their framing to tantrums = self-regulation process. What helps: Validation, empathy, meeting the unmet core need behind the distress, changing the environment to address the root cause for the distress. What does not help: adding more stress by threatening the child or pressuring them to control their emotional outburst. The outburst is the steam coming out of the safety valve.

ex3xu 4y ago

I took some tips from a book titled How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk - they suggest to try to help kids label their emotions, and then reaffirm those emotions are valid (even if they can't get what they want). They have various kid-friendly techniques for this in the book, one that worked for a couple of the worst tantrums I had to defuse is getting them to draw a picture of how mad they are.

actfrench 4y ago
Love this book. It's so important to allow children feel their feelings, allow those feelings and let them pass through them. A tantrum is a cry for help: what do they need, sleep? food? just to vent a little bit? The more you push those feelings down the more you grow. However, it's important to honor your own needs for quite and peace of mind too. If you're having trouble because you need quiet and peace, you can express those needs to your child. They may not listen but it's good for them to know. Kids are much like adults. When needs are expressed well and non-violently with sound reasoning and released expectations they often get met.

danielvf 4y ago

Father of five kids. All kids are different, so only speaking for mine. Smaller kids usually tantrum when they are overtired (or over sugared or something else affecting them) OR because they are trying to manipulate to get what they want. Once you are used to it, you can tell pretty quickly which one it is. A tired kid needs to chill down to normal and/or take a brief nap. Getting them to a quiet place for a bit is good. At home, usually just their bedroom. Some kids have individual ways we've learned of calming down once we get there. Some are just going to do their thing for fifteen minutes, and then can calm down. In either case, usually less simulation helps. We'll check to see if they've not been getting enough sleep and adjust if needed. The manipulation kind is pretty easy to deal with. Just make sure it doesn't get the desired results, stay chill yourself, and minimize the noise on other people. Our kids always seem to try on and off for a couple months, but once it clearly doesn't work, they just stop. If we are home we just let them lay on the floor and tantrum away until they get up and go back about life. If we are out, one of us would take them to the car until they are done. Escalating it by escalating it by threats/demands/punishments/drama/negotiation/fear/pleading just seems to fuel the fire. In either case it's a temporary situation that will automatically resolve itself as long as you don't escalate or encourage it. You don't have to "fix" it. This means you can be pretty chill during.

muzani 4y ago
All my kids tantrum for literal hours. I think the eldest used to do up to 4 hours when mom went out. Often it lasts to the point they fall asleep or vomit. A neighbor even suggested an exorcist. I think one child has realized that if they escalate it, we stop ignoring them. So instead of going on for hours, they just hit someone or do something drastic like threatening to destroy the TV. That brings in an ultimatum and they can admit defeat honorably. I don't think this is the best way to do it, though. They get plenty of sleep now - we found that it does cut it down a lot. There's a loop where they're too tired to sleep, always tired because they're not sleeping enough. So it's usually dinner at 6-7, lights out by 9. We find that being proactive works - "Mommy's going out for a few hours and will bring back ice cream if you behave." But a checklist for defusing tantrums when they happen would be nice.
- 4y ago

actfrench 4y ago

There is a fabulous book on this topic called "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk." and "How To Talk So children Learn" It expresses this concept much better than me. Janet Lansbury also has written some great stuff on how to navigate tantrums for everyone's benefit! Here's one: https://www.janetlansbury.com/2018/12/the-best-way-to-deal-with-intense-tantrums/ https://www.janetlansbury.com/2018/12/the-best-way-to-deal-w... My thoughts: I am a huge believer with children, as with adults to validate people's emotions. And by validating, really and fully accept that they are feeling what they are feeling and there is a good reason for them feeling that way. And really try to understand what is the need they're trying to express so they are fully heard, so that their need is heard. There are few things more affirming than being seen and heard. In no ways does this mean you have to tolerate behavior that makes you feel awful, like huge intense yelps that hurt your ears. It's Ok to say I love you and I understand you are unhappy and I'm sad you are unhappy - but my ears hurt and I would appreciate if they could cry more quietly. It's surprising how when you are honest with kids about how things make you feel and impact you with love, instead of just trying to stop it, that they listen and understand. I say, put boundaries around yourself, not around the other person. Among fellow educators, we often use the term "unconditional positive regard," meaning that we give children the benefit of the doubt that they have a good reason for what they're doing. A tantrum is often an unmet need being expressed. Maybe they're tired or hungry. As much as you're able, I'd encourage you to allow the tantrum if it doesn't affect you or the people around you too negatively. The child needs to work those emotions out of their system. For example, if you're in a movie theater, you may need to take the child out. It's improtant to accept that your child has both negative and positive emotions and that's ok. They don't have to be 100% happy and entertained all the time - that's fake, that's not life. I would start by acknowledging as much as possible with love your child's emotions. "Oh honey, I see you're so sad. Are you sad that you can't have that candy? I know it's so frustrating to not have something that you can't have. It really really hurts. You feel bad. I'm not going to let you have more sugar today because that can hurt your body. I am so sad you're feeling sad. Oh you're so sad. I love you and I'm sad you're sad, etcetera. I'm going to leave you alone for a while to cry because that sound hurts my ears/because i need to work and make money, etc. But I'm right here if you need a hug. I love you, etcetera" I don't like there to be punishment, but there could be a consequence. I wouldn't give a consequence for a tantrum, because that's them expressing their emotions. But if they make life difficult for others, you could consider letting them know that they are going to be removed from the situation where they are following through Acknowledging with love is key. But you don't need to coddle either. Calmly accept, validate, try to determine what the unmet need is if you can. Establish a boundary if needed and follow through. Here is a workshop I did with Deb Vilas from Bank Street College of Education on communicating with children where we talk about validation and 3 point limit setting. It might be helpful to you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7ODQAwwKgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7ODQAwwKgo Please let me know if you have any other questions or would like to talk through this with me sometime. I'd be happy to help. I do really feel you could benefit from Janet Lansbury's podcast and Adele Faber's book though. They give techniques that actually WORK, which is great. It's not just fluff. This compassionate communication stuff actually settles kids down and helps make life easier for everyone. Plus, they don't end up unable to feel their feelings or all bottled up and resentful as adults, or entitled either!