5 ms·

> Think of prostitution what you will but over there it's legal work and they pay their taxes. Prostitution may be a line of work where less tax is paid. This

by sshine 4y ago

> Think of prostitution what you will but over there it's legal work and they pay their taxes. Prostitution may be a line of work where less tax is paid. This does not make the act of prostitution less legitimate. Hair dressers and tattoo artists also, on average, declare less of their total income, and we don't consider hair dressers and tattoo artists illegitimate businesses. We just expect them to pay taxes and tolerate, to some degree, if they don't. Going to the hair dresser or getting a tattoo isn't seen as morally objectional because of what they pay in taxes. Less tax is paid because of cash. This is also true for prostitution. In part because the anonymity of cash is preferable among the customers, because the sex worker avoids scrutiny by the bank, and because sex workers don't necessarily have work permits in the countries in which they operate. Conversely, we can think of morally objectional jobs where taxes are paid.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
I agree tax and legitimacy are not the same thing. Tax avoidance being common in an industry does not make the work itself illegitimate. The reason I mentioned tax is that not having a bank account was making it more complex for them to actually pay their taxes as a business. Taxation in the Netherlands is no longer something you can pay with an envelope of cash. If you want to run a legit business you can't do so without one. It was one of the things mentioned during the debate about this. I'm not sure how it turned out because I don't live there anymore but there was talk of mandating the banks to offer them an account. After all without overdrafts or loans there is no real risk to the bank anyway.
ars 4y ago
I think it's more to do with prostitutes needing to keep the identities of their clients secret. So they keep no records, and are hard to audit for taxes. It would be interesting to compare to other (legal) business that keep identities secret in this way.
- eru 4y ago
  When I go to the barber, I don't need to tell them my name either. Similar for the supermarket when I'm paying in cash. So I'm not sure prostitutes are anything special? Both barber and supermarket keep records of what services they performed or goods they sold, but not who purchased them (when paying in cash). A prostitute could do exactly the same. > It would be interesting to compare to other (legal) business that keep identities secret in this way. Basically almost any business where you can pay in cash?
formerkrogemp 4y ago
If you want taxes, just fund the IRS. Allow and enable them to legally update and automate their systems off of 70's level technology and staffing levels which have persisted into the *2020's. Raise salaries. Improve image. Regulate tax preparers more so that not just any idiot with a PTIN can do a $20 million dollar company's return and put whatever they're told to on the return. It's not trucking rocket science.
- yonaguska 4y ago
  Even easier, just simplify the tax code. But tax preparation lobbyists blocked those attempts. The IRS is getting record funding. They are stockpiling ammo with all the extra funds. Taxation is theft anyways. The complicated tax code ensures that wealthy people pay less taxes while the IRS can go after middle class earners. Throwing more money at the problem won't help in my simple minded opinion.
  - eru 4y ago
    > Even easier, just simplify the tax code. I'd say 'simpler', not 'easier'. > Taxation is theft anyways. Not really. Just pretend that living in a country is like renting a shop in a mall. The owners of the mall decide what they want to charge you for. In the simplest case, they just demand rent, but they could also charge you for the number of blue scarves displayed. That's just silly, but not theft (as long as the possibility of such a charge is mentioned in the rental contract). If you don't like the mall, move and set up shop in a different one. Similarly, most countries let you leave, too. (Even though eg East Germany and North Korea weren't/aren't so keen on that, and the US charges you an exit fee.) Vote with your feet! (For example, I grew up in Germany, but wasn't too keen on the package of taxes and government services on offer there. After a few years in different countries, I settled in Singapore, which is much better value for money. I'm happy with what I am getting here for the modest amount of taxes they take.)
    - notpushkin 4y ago
      > If you don't like the mall, move and set up shop in a different one. Except in a lot of (if not most) cases, you can't. I grew up in Russia and I feel blessed to live in Estonia now. Most of my fellow Russians can't, especially nowadays. Another point is, you can set up your own mall and don't pay anybody, but good luck setting up your own state and not getting shot by your neighbour (provided you even find a little piece of terra nullius where you can do that – most of the land is claimed by one government or the other, even though it's mostly sitting there unused).
Spooky23 4y ago
Typically hair dressers and tattoo artists are artisans who rent a chair. There’s no pimp trafficking you or getting you hooked on drugs and in debt to so you can make him money. Despite what the pornhub interviews tell you, it’s typically a low skill gig where you end up, not aspire to.
- sshine 4y ago
  > artisans It’s “content creator” now. ;-)
- eru 4y ago
  > Typically hair dressers and tattoo artists are artisans who rent a chair. I suspect that depends on jurisdiction? I'm fairly sure that eg in Germany it's more common that they are employees. No clue about the Netherlands.

by sshine 4y ago

GekkePrutser 4y ago

I agree tax and legitimacy are not the same thing. Tax avoidance being common in an industry does not make the work itself illegitimate. The reason I mentioned tax is that not having a bank account was making it more complex for them to actually pay their taxes as a business. Taxation in the Netherlands is no longer something you can pay with an envelope of cash. If you want to run a legit business you can't do so without one. It was one of the things mentioned during the debate about this. I'm not sure how it turned out because I don't live there anymore but there was talk of mandating the banks to offer them an account. After all without overdrafts or loans there is no real risk to the bank anyway.

ars 4y ago

I think it's more to do with prostitutes needing to keep the identities of their clients secret. So they keep no records, and are hard to audit for taxes. It would be interesting to compare to other (legal) business that keep identities secret in this way.

eru 4y ago
When I go to the barber, I don't need to tell them my name either. Similar for the supermarket when I'm paying in cash. So I'm not sure prostitutes are anything special? Both barber and supermarket keep records of what services they performed or goods they sold, but not who purchased them (when paying in cash). A prostitute could do exactly the same. > It would be interesting to compare to other (legal) business that keep identities secret in this way. Basically almost any business where you can pay in cash?

formerkrogemp 4y ago

If you want taxes, just fund the IRS. Allow and enable them to legally update and automate their systems off of 70's level technology and staffing levels which have persisted into the *2020's. Raise salaries. Improve image. Regulate tax preparers more so that not just any idiot with a PTIN can do a $20 million dollar company's return and put whatever they're told to on the return. It's not trucking rocket science.

yonaguska 4y ago
Even easier, just simplify the tax code. But tax preparation lobbyists blocked those attempts. The IRS is getting record funding. They are stockpiling ammo with all the extra funds. Taxation is theft anyways. The complicated tax code ensures that wealthy people pay less taxes while the IRS can go after middle class earners. Throwing more money at the problem won't help in my simple minded opinion.
- eru 4y ago
  > Even easier, just simplify the tax code. I'd say 'simpler', not 'easier'. > Taxation is theft anyways. Not really. Just pretend that living in a country is like renting a shop in a mall. The owners of the mall decide what they want to charge you for. In the simplest case, they just demand rent, but they could also charge you for the number of blue scarves displayed. That's just silly, but not theft (as long as the possibility of such a charge is mentioned in the rental contract). If you don't like the mall, move and set up shop in a different one. Similarly, most countries let you leave, too. (Even though eg East Germany and North Korea weren't/aren't so keen on that, and the US charges you an exit fee.) Vote with your feet! (For example, I grew up in Germany, but wasn't too keen on the package of taxes and government services on offer there. After a few years in different countries, I settled in Singapore, which is much better value for money. I'm happy with what I am getting here for the modest amount of taxes they take.)
  - notpushkin 4y ago
    > If you don't like the mall, move and set up shop in a different one. Except in a lot of (if not most) cases, you can't. I grew up in Russia and I feel blessed to live in Estonia now. Most of my fellow Russians can't, especially nowadays. Another point is, you can set up your own mall and don't pay anybody, but good luck setting up your own state and not getting shot by your neighbour (provided you even find a little piece of terra nullius where you can do that – most of the land is claimed by one government or the other, even though it's mostly sitting there unused).

Spooky23 4y ago

Typically hair dressers and tattoo artists are artisans who rent a chair. There’s no pimp trafficking you or getting you hooked on drugs and in debt to so you can make him money. Despite what the pornhub interviews tell you, it’s typically a low skill gig where you end up, not aspire to.

sshine 4y ago
> artisans It’s “content creator” now. ;-)
eru 4y ago
> Typically hair dressers and tattoo artists are artisans who rent a chair. I suspect that depends on jurisdiction? I'm fairly sure that eg in Germany it's more common that they are employees. No clue about the Netherlands.