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There's nothing strange about accessing administrative services only in a country's (or state) language, that's how it's done in the overwhelming majority of pl

There's nothing strange about accessing administrative services only in a country's (or state) language, that's how it's done in the overwhelming majority of places. I say that as someone who have been resident in foreign countries for half a decade. It's simply way too costly to translate everything in hundreds of languages. Also from a social point of view, how someone who doesn't speak the language is supposed to integrate or blend into the host society? I've seen people with almost no or no Japanese skills for example living there for years, and while they seemed to be able to live their live, I wouldn't exchange our place for a second, as even basic proficiency is a total game changer.

unsignedint 4y ago
Japan is probably an outliar in that respect. They may never integrate but does not necessarily mean they are totally unliveable without language proficiency. Most road signs are accompanied by English, as with most of government documents. While people's reaction to non-Japanese speaking people may vary, many will try their best English to help you out. To be honest it is difficult even with Japanese language skills for "foreigners" to fully integrate in Japanese society. It is not necessarily a bad thing as you can live without putting up with many of social expectations as Japanese.
mardifoufs 4y ago
The country's language isn't just French though. Yes, the province is French and I'm all for protecting the French language, but this particular law is pure pandering to the massive quebecois nationalist wing. Your argument does not even make sense, considering that Québec managed to translate and provide services in English to those who need it for decades now. That law has just been passed so it's actually going to require more effort to suddenly put in place a policy that actively discriminates against immigrants than to just do nothing. Remember, this is not going to apply for "native" English quebecers or anglo-canadians. How is that more efficient, and how isn't that blatantly xenophobic? Also, the irony here is that the RoC has to basically keep providing (or at least pretend to keep) services in both languages, and I as a French speaker can request services in French even in a completely anglo region of say, ontario and I'd be legally entitled to do so. At a federal and provincial level. But Québec should be allowed to blatantly refuse government services because we don't feel like it anymore? We are trying to get our cake and eat it too here. And it's not like this policy is even going to do anything. The key to preserve the language is to make sure the children are taught French, not force some poor middle aged immigrant parents to avoid interacting with their government because they can't learn a foreign language in 6 month. Again, this entire thing is pure pandering
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  > can request services in French even in a completely anglo region of say, ontario and I'd be legally entitled to do so. At a federal and provincial level. Ontario and the feds could just vote similar laws. My understanding is that anyone among the feds trying that would just lose their next elections but at the province level it seems doable.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    That depends on how the Supreme court sees the situation. We don't have a very coherent constitutional framework so everything is very fuzzy. I wouldn't be surprised if legault went as far as to use the non withstanding clause if it came to that (Québec did that in the past, and there would be almost 0 backlash since he'd be "standing for our language/standing against the anglo feds"). Actually that would probably be the best thing that could happen to Legault,and would make the nationalist pandering extremely effective. That "implicit" threat is the reason why the qc government has been able to basically ignore charter rights when it comes to language. That's why for example, children with non anglocanadian parents cannot get an English education until college. Any attempt to strike that down judicially, even if successful, will just lead to invoking the clause and a surge of nationalist sentiment. Though that policy in particular is probably what saved french and kept it relevant, so its hard to argue against the results. I wouldn't say that the same power dynamic applies to Ontario at all. Even if they were to pull back on bilinguism, they'd certainly get slapped in court and not push further. Because there's no real political capital to gain in invoking the clause for an issue like bilinguism in anglocanada.
goosedragons 4y ago
It is strange when you're forcing it after a time limit. If a Chinese immigrant in Quebec visits a doctor that speaks Mandarin can the doctor speak to the patient in Mandarin after six months? With this law it's not really clear that this is allowed. Why should someone have to struggle to understand a medical diagnosis in a foreign language when they can probably barely hold a basic conversation after six months?
FalconSensei 4y ago
> There's nothing strange about accessing administrative services only in a country's (or state) language Canada's officially bilingual, and in every province they have to offer services in both languages. All banks and major institutions will also offer services in both languages, at least when reaching for customer support online/phone. Now think about it: most of Canada has to offer French because of Quebec. But Quebec don't want to offer English? Also consider that there is a separatist movement in Quebec.

unsignedint 4y ago

Japan is probably an outliar in that respect. They may never integrate but does not necessarily mean they are totally unliveable without language proficiency. Most road signs are accompanied by English, as with most of government documents. While people's reaction to non-Japanese speaking people may vary, many will try their best English to help you out. To be honest it is difficult even with Japanese language skills for "foreigners" to fully integrate in Japanese society. It is not necessarily a bad thing as you can live without putting up with many of social expectations as Japanese.

mardifoufs 4y ago

The country's language isn't just French though. Yes, the province is French and I'm all for protecting the French language, but this particular law is pure pandering to the massive quebecois nationalist wing. Your argument does not even make sense, considering that Québec managed to translate and provide services in English to those who need it for decades now. That law has just been passed so it's actually going to require more effort to suddenly put in place a policy that actively discriminates against immigrants than to just do nothing. Remember, this is not going to apply for "native" English quebecers or anglo-canadians. How is that more efficient, and how isn't that blatantly xenophobic? Also, the irony here is that the RoC has to basically keep providing (or at least pretend to keep) services in both languages, and I as a French speaker can request services in French even in a completely anglo region of say, ontario and I'd be legally entitled to do so. At a federal and provincial level. But Québec should be allowed to blatantly refuse government services because we don't feel like it anymore? We are trying to get our cake and eat it too here. And it's not like this policy is even going to do anything. The key to preserve the language is to make sure the children are taught French, not force some poor middle aged immigrant parents to avoid interacting with their government because they can't learn a foreign language in 6 month. Again, this entire thing is pure pandering

908B64B197 4y ago
> can request services in French even in a completely anglo region of say, ontario and I'd be legally entitled to do so. At a federal and provincial level. Ontario and the feds could just vote similar laws. My understanding is that anyone among the feds trying that would just lose their next elections but at the province level it seems doable.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  That depends on how the Supreme court sees the situation. We don't have a very coherent constitutional framework so everything is very fuzzy. I wouldn't be surprised if legault went as far as to use the non withstanding clause if it came to that (Québec did that in the past, and there would be almost 0 backlash since he'd be "standing for our language/standing against the anglo feds"). Actually that would probably be the best thing that could happen to Legault,and would make the nationalist pandering extremely effective. That "implicit" threat is the reason why the qc government has been able to basically ignore charter rights when it comes to language. That's why for example, children with non anglocanadian parents cannot get an English education until college. Any attempt to strike that down judicially, even if successful, will just lead to invoking the clause and a surge of nationalist sentiment. Though that policy in particular is probably what saved french and kept it relevant, so its hard to argue against the results. I wouldn't say that the same power dynamic applies to Ontario at all. Even if they were to pull back on bilinguism, they'd certainly get slapped in court and not push further. Because there's no real political capital to gain in invoking the clause for an issue like bilinguism in anglocanada.

goosedragons 4y ago

It is strange when you're forcing it after a time limit. If a Chinese immigrant in Quebec visits a doctor that speaks Mandarin can the doctor speak to the patient in Mandarin after six months? With this law it's not really clear that this is allowed. Why should someone have to struggle to understand a medical diagnosis in a foreign language when they can probably barely hold a basic conversation after six months?

FalconSensei 4y ago

> There's nothing strange about accessing administrative services only in a country's (or state) language Canada's officially bilingual, and in every province they have to offer services in both languages. All banks and major institutions will also offer services in both languages, at least when reaching for customer support online/phone. Now think about it: most of Canada has to offer French because of Quebec. But Quebec don't want to offer English? Also consider that there is a separatist movement in Quebec.