4 ms·

> you could conceivably run postgres on your app server to reduce the ops load if you really felt it was a significant effort. Still, PGSQL requires some level

> you could conceivably run postgres on your app server to reduce the ops load if you really felt it was a significant effort. Still, PGSQL requires some level of setup/maintenance: create user, permissions, database, service with config/security effort. If there is a way to run PGSQL as lib and say to it: just store your data in this dir without other steps, I am very interested to learn.

urda 4y ago
You are likely wanting something like RDS [1], Azure [2], or even Linode (which I just discovered) [3]. Sure you have to pay a larger premium for it, but these products do allow you to focus on the app than the DBA stuff. - [1] https://aws.amazon.com/rds/ https://aws.amazon.com/rds/ - [2] https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/postgresql/#overview https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/postgresql/#overv... - [3] https://www.linode.com/products/postgresql/ https://www.linode.com/products/postgresql/
- riku_iki 4y ago
  > pay a larger premium for it yeah, premium is very large if I want to do a lot of data crunching (lots of iops, cores and ram is needed), plus latency/throughput to those services will be much higher than to my local disk through PCIE bus.
eropple 4y ago
You can set up Postgres with three lines of bash and a Unix socket. It is more work; I wouldn't say it's appreciably more work, and if you need more rigorous data modeling (I frequently do) then it's worth considering if this is the mode in which you'd like to run your data stores (I wouldn't, but latency isn't the most critical thing for stuff I do).
- riku_iki 4y ago
  I think it is more than that. Steps will be: - sudo apt install postgres (more steps are needed if you are not satisfied with OS default version) - sudo su postgres - psql -> create db, user, grant permissions - modify hba.conf file to change connection permissions - modify postgresql.conf to change settings to your liking because defaults are very out of touch with modern hardware Another options would be to build your docker image, but I am not good with this.
  - remram 4y ago
    Whereas with SQLite it's: - sudo apt install sqlite3 # you're going to want the client - sudo chmod myapp db.sqlite3 - sudo chmod myapp . # make sure you have directory write permissions for WAL/journal - sudo -u myapp sqlite3 db.sqlite3 'PRAGMA journal_mode=WAL;' Nothing is ever single-command easy in all cases.
    - riku_iki 4y ago
      I am not familiar with SQLite, and not familiar how engineers embed it to apps, but I believe for many apps with SQLite in distribution you don't need all these steps, it is included as some kind of library and not as standalone server. I am familiar with Java and H2, you just say in config somewhere: store db in this directory, and you are all set. I think there is no such route currently for PGSQL.
      - eropple 4y ago
        Sorry, but it's more complex than this. As an example, NPM's `sqlite3` package does not contain the actual library. Neither does Ruby's. You need the platform library for quite a few runtimes and now your single-command future has...multiple commands. Which isn't bad. This is a pretty low bar to clear. (All that said, I am of the opinion that separating data storage from application logic is better for operations, for security, and for disaster recovery unless you desperately need to prioritize avoiding network latency above everything else, so this is all pretty moot to me.)
        riku_iki 4y ago
        > but it's more complex than this. As an example, NPM's `sqlite3` package does not contain the actual library. Neither does Ruby's. You need the platform library for quite a few runtimes and now your single-command future has...multiple commands. I think usual way to do it is say having shared library file like sqlite.so in some directory or installed through OS package manager, and thin API binding for specific runtime in form of runtime package (e.g. npm). > you desperately need to prioritize avoiding network latency above everything else, so this is all pretty moot to me Goal here is easy distribution of embedded DB. Many apps are doing this with SQLite, for example Dropbox client. Many other examples: https://www.sqlite.org/famous.html https://www.sqlite.org/famous.html

urda 4y ago

You are likely wanting something like RDS [1], Azure [2], or even Linode (which I just discovered) [3]. Sure you have to pay a larger premium for it, but these products do allow you to focus on the app than the DBA stuff. - [1] https://aws.amazon.com/rds/ https://aws.amazon.com/rds/ - [2] https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/postgresql/#overview https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/postgresql/#overv... - [3] https://www.linode.com/products/postgresql/ https://www.linode.com/products/postgresql/

riku_iki 4y ago
> pay a larger premium for it yeah, premium is very large if I want to do a lot of data crunching (lots of iops, cores and ram is needed), plus latency/throughput to those services will be much higher than to my local disk through PCIE bus.

eropple 4y ago

You can set up Postgres with three lines of bash and a Unix socket. It is more work; I wouldn't say it's appreciably more work, and if you need more rigorous data modeling (I frequently do) then it's worth considering if this is the mode in which you'd like to run your data stores (I wouldn't, but latency isn't the most critical thing for stuff I do).

riku_iki 4y ago
I think it is more than that. Steps will be: - sudo apt install postgres (more steps are needed if you are not satisfied with OS default version) - sudo su postgres - psql -> create db, user, grant permissions - modify hba.conf file to change connection permissions - modify postgresql.conf to change settings to your liking because defaults are very out of touch with modern hardware Another options would be to build your docker image, but I am not good with this.
- remram 4y ago
  Whereas with SQLite it's: - sudo apt install sqlite3 # you're going to want the client - sudo chmod myapp db.sqlite3 - sudo chmod myapp . # make sure you have directory write permissions for WAL/journal - sudo -u myapp sqlite3 db.sqlite3 'PRAGMA journal_mode=WAL;' Nothing is ever single-command easy in all cases.
  - riku_iki 4y ago
    I am not familiar with SQLite, and not familiar how engineers embed it to apps, but I believe for many apps with SQLite in distribution you don't need all these steps, it is included as some kind of library and not as standalone server. I am familiar with Java and H2, you just say in config somewhere: store db in this directory, and you are all set. I think there is no such route currently for PGSQL.
    - eropple 4y ago
      Sorry, but it's more complex than this. As an example, NPM's `sqlite3` package does not contain the actual library. Neither does Ruby's. You need the platform library for quite a few runtimes and now your single-command future has...multiple commands. Which isn't bad. This is a pretty low bar to clear. (All that said, I am of the opinion that separating data storage from application logic is better for operations, for security, and for disaster recovery unless you desperately need to prioritize avoiding network latency above everything else, so this is all pretty moot to me.)
      - riku_iki 4y ago
        > but it's more complex than this. As an example, NPM's `sqlite3` package does not contain the actual library. Neither does Ruby's. You need the platform library for quite a few runtimes and now your single-command future has...multiple commands. I think usual way to do it is say having shared library file like sqlite.so in some directory or installed through OS package manager, and thin API binding for specific runtime in form of runtime package (e.g. npm). > you desperately need to prioritize avoiding network latency above everything else, so this is all pretty moot to me Goal here is easy distribution of embedded DB. Many apps are doing this with SQLite, for example Dropbox client. Many other examples: https://www.sqlite.org/famous.html https://www.sqlite.org/famous.html