3 ms·

This is so, so true. At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn. Despite experiencing the "shower solution" repeatedly over the years, I still c

This is so, so true. At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn. Despite experiencing the "shower solution" repeatedly over the years, I still cannot get myself to let go and take a step back until I'm literally too exhausted to continue. When I'm thinking clearly, it's obvious the optimal answer is "take a break". But when I'm "in the stuck", taking a break seems like the worst possible answer. Every. Time.

jasonladuke0311 4y ago
> At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn. Same here. I’ve found myself going down rabbit holes so ridiculously orthogonal to the actual problem that I was embarrassed for myself.
itsmemattchung 4y ago
There must be some psychological or clinical term for this: to be stuck in some fixated state that prevents forward progress unless a break is actually taken.
- wiredfool 4y ago
  It's one of the themes of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. A book on programming if I've ever read one.
- pramodbiligiri 4y ago
  I've heard it being called Focussed Mode and Diffuse Mode, as described here - https://fs.blog/focused-diffuse-thinking/ https://fs.blog/focused-diffuse-thinking/ Bret Victor links to this book called Psychology of Invention in the Mathematical Field, which talks a lot about this too - http://worrydream.com/refs/Hadamard%20-%20The%20psychology%20of%20invention%20in%20the%20mathematical%20field.pdf http://worrydream.com/refs/Hadamard%20-%20The%20psychology%2...
barrysteve 4y ago
We're so convinced consciousness is doing the solving that more is always better.
- datavirtue 4y ago
  Winner.
hyperpallium2 4y ago
It may be that "being stuck" is "uploading the problem and interconnections"... a necessary pre-condition for the walk, the shower etc to work. It could be that one is stuck longer than necessary for uploading... or it could be that one is only able to let go when uploading is complete... What evidence would show which it is?
- bradstewart 4y ago
  You're on to something here. If I had some signal that indicated "sufficient information uploaded, algorithm running" it'd be easy to stop. But the (obvious) problem is that signal is, usually, the discovery of the solution. Which happens well after all the being stuck. There is something comforting about accepting that banging my head against a wall might just be a requirement of figuring the thing out, though.
  - hyperpallium2 4y ago
    "Banging your head" usually means lots of trial and error, that is all error. But beyond uploading information, every experiment creates new information. ("I haven't failed - I've discovered 1,000 ways that won't work!" https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/07/31/edison-lot-results/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/07/31/edison-lot-results/) When the search space is exponential, with too many combinations to try, pruning off a branch is enormously helpful (and perfectly harmless... provided the solution doesn't happen to lie on that branch - those are my most stuck times). One signal is when I can't think of anything else to try - that means I've extracted all the information I can. The trouble is, I'm pretty good at thinking of things to try.
rendaw 4y ago
There have been plenty of times for me where I was like "oh I'll stop for now, hopefully the answer will come in the shower" or while I'm falling asleep or while I'm doing groceries or something, but never does. There goes two weeks, no progress. Eventually I have to sit down, focus, and think. So it's not a lesson I've learned, but I don't think it's a lesson I should learn either.

jasonladuke0311 4y ago

> At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn. Same here. I’ve found myself going down rabbit holes so ridiculously orthogonal to the actual problem that I was embarrassed for myself.

itsmemattchung 4y ago

There must be some psychological or clinical term for this: to be stuck in some fixated state that prevents forward progress unless a break is actually taken.

wiredfool 4y ago
It's one of the themes of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. A book on programming if I've ever read one.
pramodbiligiri 4y ago
I've heard it being called Focussed Mode and Diffuse Mode, as described here - https://fs.blog/focused-diffuse-thinking/ https://fs.blog/focused-diffuse-thinking/ Bret Victor links to this book called Psychology of Invention in the Mathematical Field, which talks a lot about this too - http://worrydream.com/refs/Hadamard%20-%20The%20psychology%20of%20invention%20in%20the%20mathematical%20field.pdf http://worrydream.com/refs/Hadamard%20-%20The%20psychology%2...

barrysteve 4y ago

We're so convinced consciousness is doing the solving that more is always better.

datavirtue 4y ago
Winner.

hyperpallium2 4y ago

It may be that "being stuck" is "uploading the problem and interconnections"... a necessary pre-condition for the walk, the shower etc to work. It could be that one is stuck longer than necessary for uploading... or it could be that one is only able to let go when uploading is complete... What evidence would show which it is?

bradstewart 4y ago
You're on to something here. If I had some signal that indicated "sufficient information uploaded, algorithm running" it'd be easy to stop. But the (obvious) problem is that signal is, usually, the discovery of the solution. Which happens well after all the being stuck. There is something comforting about accepting that banging my head against a wall might just be a requirement of figuring the thing out, though.
- hyperpallium2 4y ago
  "Banging your head" usually means lots of trial and error, that is all error. But beyond uploading information, every experiment creates new information. ("I haven't failed - I've discovered 1,000 ways that won't work!" https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/07/31/edison-lot-results/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/07/31/edison-lot-results/) When the search space is exponential, with too many combinations to try, pruning off a branch is enormously helpful (and perfectly harmless... provided the solution doesn't happen to lie on that branch - those are my most stuck times). One signal is when I can't think of anything else to try - that means I've extracted all the information I can. The trouble is, I'm pretty good at thinking of things to try.

rendaw 4y ago

There have been plenty of times for me where I was like "oh I'll stop for now, hopefully the answer will come in the shower" or while I'm falling asleep or while I'm doing groceries or something, but never does. There goes two weeks, no progress. Eventually I have to sit down, focus, and think. So it's not a lesson I've learned, but I don't think it's a lesson I should learn either.