3 ms·

ORMs are fine but they are not a silver bullet that means you never need to look at the database or the queries generated. I think too many people use ORMs and

ORMs are fine but they are not a silver bullet that means you never need to look at the database or the queries generated. I think too many people use ORMs and rely on them to do everything, then blame the database when things are slow. :(

cryptonector 4y ago
Devs start with ORMs because they promise to make everything easy. Then their apps grow complex enough that the ORMs get in the way. Then the devs get sad.
- bbkane 4y ago
  Re: no ORMs - do you have any advice on how I could make this raw SQL insertion ( https://github.com/bbkane/starghaze/blob/54d255f524f8ef73384482b5513087c746e31089/format.go#L225 https://github.com/bbkane/starghaze/blob/54d255f524f8ef73384... ) more readable and less error prone? Right now I'm basically concatenating strings and hoping I don't misorder my parameters when I exec. 200 lines of this!! Am I doing raw SQL wrong?
  - cryptonector 4y ago
    > Right now I'm basically concatenating strings Well, you're using query parameters, but I think I understand what you mean. What I would do is write a stored procedure that takes whatever parameters, then I'd write PG SQL to generate bindings to that procedure for whatever language you're using (Golang here). I might write the bindings by hand if it's not a lot of work, but definitely would write a little compiler if it's a tone of work. That way you can get type-safety.
    - bbkane 4y ago
      Thank you. I'm using SQLite3 to keep deployment simple, which unfortunately doesn't support stored procedures. Do you have any other suggestions to improve this code?
      - cryptonector 4y ago
        SQLite3 very much supports something like stored procedures though! Only, instead of calling them that it calls them `INSTEAD OF INSERT` triggers. So, you'd do something like: CREATE VIEW IF NOT EXISTS things AS ...; CREATE TRIGGER IF NOT EXISTS create_thing INSTEAD OF INSERT ON things FOR EACH ROW BEGIN ... END; and to invoke such a "stored procedure" you'd INSERT INTO things (...) VALUES (...), ...; or `INSERT .. SELECT ..;`. Now, with SQLite3 you don't get reflection via SQL, like you do in PG via the `pg_catalog` schema, but you do get reflection via the API. Also, because it's SQLite3, you don't get strong typing, and you get very few types, so even with reflection via the API, generating type-safe stub functions to invoke the "stored procedure" is not exactly easy or possible. FYI, SQLite3 is Turing-complete. You can loop via recursive triggers. And you can do conditionals via `WHERE` clauses on the statements in your trigger bodies (and also via `OR IGNORE` and such). EDIT: I made a post of this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31913062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31913062
  - bestinterest 4y ago
    It takes a lot to say very little in Go sometimes, I'd say this is one of those cases. Mainly the if err != nil boiler is at issue here. I don't think you are doing anything wrong from a noobies opinion.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    SQLite supports named parameters: https://sqlite.org/c3ref/bind_blob.html https://sqlite.org/c3ref/bind_blob.html I don't know if Go's SQLite support in turn supports named parameters, but if it does, then that would likely help considerably with readability.
1ark 4y ago
If using Python, then I think Peewee strikes a perfect balance. In my pov it rather helps writing and reason about queries, which in turn you can get as query+params to use in other places such as pandas. It is neither in the way nor magic bloat.

cryptonector 4y ago

Devs start with ORMs because they promise to make everything easy. Then their apps grow complex enough that the ORMs get in the way. Then the devs get sad.

bbkane 4y ago
Re: no ORMs - do you have any advice on how I could make this raw SQL insertion ( https://github.com/bbkane/starghaze/blob/54d255f524f8ef73384482b5513087c746e31089/format.go#L225 https://github.com/bbkane/starghaze/blob/54d255f524f8ef73384... ) more readable and less error prone? Right now I'm basically concatenating strings and hoping I don't misorder my parameters when I exec. 200 lines of this!! Am I doing raw SQL wrong?
- cryptonector 4y ago
  > Right now I'm basically concatenating strings Well, you're using query parameters, but I think I understand what you mean. What I would do is write a stored procedure that takes whatever parameters, then I'd write PG SQL to generate bindings to that procedure for whatever language you're using (Golang here). I might write the bindings by hand if it's not a lot of work, but definitely would write a little compiler if it's a tone of work. That way you can get type-safety.
  - bbkane 4y ago
    Thank you. I'm using SQLite3 to keep deployment simple, which unfortunately doesn't support stored procedures. Do you have any other suggestions to improve this code?
    - cryptonector 4y ago
      SQLite3 very much supports something like stored procedures though! Only, instead of calling them that it calls them `INSTEAD OF INSERT` triggers. So, you'd do something like: CREATE VIEW IF NOT EXISTS things AS ...; CREATE TRIGGER IF NOT EXISTS create_thing INSTEAD OF INSERT ON things FOR EACH ROW BEGIN ... END; and to invoke such a "stored procedure" you'd INSERT INTO things (...) VALUES (...), ...; or `INSERT .. SELECT ..;`. Now, with SQLite3 you don't get reflection via SQL, like you do in PG via the `pg_catalog` schema, but you do get reflection via the API. Also, because it's SQLite3, you don't get strong typing, and you get very few types, so even with reflection via the API, generating type-safe stub functions to invoke the "stored procedure" is not exactly easy or possible. FYI, SQLite3 is Turing-complete. You can loop via recursive triggers. And you can do conditionals via `WHERE` clauses on the statements in your trigger bodies (and also via `OR IGNORE` and such). EDIT: I made a post of this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31913062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31913062
- bestinterest 4y ago
  It takes a lot to say very little in Go sometimes, I'd say this is one of those cases. Mainly the if err != nil boiler is at issue here. I don't think you are doing anything wrong from a noobies opinion.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  SQLite supports named parameters: https://sqlite.org/c3ref/bind_blob.html https://sqlite.org/c3ref/bind_blob.html I don't know if Go's SQLite support in turn supports named parameters, but if it does, then that would likely help considerably with readability.

1ark 4y ago

If using Python, then I think Peewee strikes a perfect balance. In my pov it rather helps writing and reason about queries, which in turn you can get as query+params to use in other places such as pandas. It is neither in the way nor magic bloat.