4 ms·

I bet these places will start to threaten folks now that their state likely lets them. "Well, now that we have your data, we'll track you since births are publ

by Spoom 4y ago

I bet these places will start to threaten folks now that their state likely lets them. "Well, now that we have your data, we'll track you since births are public knowledge. If we don't see a birth, we'll turn it over to the police, and make your identity public (no private medical data needed, just that we have reason to believe you had an abortion) so that anyone in a state with a Texas-style law can sue you for $10,000 apiece, making your losses unlimited. Are you sure you want that abortion now?"

Hamuko 4y ago
I was under the impression that the Texas-style 10k lawsuit law was mostly meant as a way to circumvent the protections protected by Roe v. Wade, and that Texas might enact something more direct now.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  Texas actually has a criminal trigger ban that has already automatically gone into effect because of Roe falling, but that doesn't repeal the private enforcement law.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    Correction, it has a trigger ban that has not yet gone into effect for administrative reasons but will next month barring some intervention, but also has a pre-Roe (1920ish, IIRC) criminal law that went back into effect when Roe was struck down.
hellojesus 4y ago
Regardless, Texas cannot hold you liable for an abortion that you get performed in another state. So Texas can try all they want, but they have no jurisdiction over what happens in California, so they will never be able to write legislation that makes it illegal to travel to another state for an abortion.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Regardless, Texas cannot hold you liable for an abortion that you get performed in another state. Texas can do whatever the US Supreme Court allows them to do, and if you think well-established Constitutional precedent is a firm guide on that...how do you think they have the ability to ban abortion in Texas in the first place? But even under established precedent, I don't think it's at all clear that they cannot punish you for anything you do while in Texas with the intent of getting an abortion, even if the actual abortion is performed outside of Texas. And even if they can't (based on what the courts will eventually decide) punish you, they can arrest you, charge you, try you, convict you, sentence you, and send you to prison, possibly awaiting execution, before your case is even ripe for appeal.
  - hellojesus 4y ago
    Your last paragraph is true, but the former are not. States are not allowed to restrict interstate travel, and they must uniformly apply the law. And they cannot punish you for a thought-crime, meaning they cannot arrest you under the supposition that your travel is arranged with intent to get an abortion outside their jurisdiction. > Texas can do whatever the US Supreme Court allows them to do, and if you think well-established Constitutional precedent is a firm guide on that...how do you think they have the ability to ban abortion in Texas in the first place? The Constitution is exactly what gives Texas the power to regulate abortion. It does so by not explicitly enumerating that power the the federal government.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > States are not allowed to restrict interstate travel, States can restrict interstate travel for...well, lots of reasons, and preventing what state law defines as murder is certainly one of them, but there are limits on the burdens they can impose on travel. > And they cannot punish you for a thought-crime, meaning they cannot arrest you under the supposition that your travel is arranged with intent to get an abortion outside their jurisdiction. States absolutely can punish for the combination of intent and action. They can also punish under their laws a crime whose culmination happens outside of their borders when some part of it occurred within their borders. If a state can define a fetus as a person who can be murdered, they can absolutely make it illegal for someone to transport that person to any place (inside or outside the state) for the purpose of killing them.

by Spoom 4y ago

Hamuko 4y ago

I was under the impression that the Texas-style 10k lawsuit law was mostly meant as a way to circumvent the protections protected by Roe v. Wade, and that Texas might enact something more direct now.

dragonwriter 4y ago
Texas actually has a criminal trigger ban that has already automatically gone into effect because of Roe falling, but that doesn't repeal the private enforcement law.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  Correction, it has a trigger ban that has not yet gone into effect for administrative reasons but will next month barring some intervention, but also has a pre-Roe (1920ish, IIRC) criminal law that went back into effect when Roe was struck down.

hellojesus 4y ago

Regardless, Texas cannot hold you liable for an abortion that you get performed in another state. So Texas can try all they want, but they have no jurisdiction over what happens in California, so they will never be able to write legislation that makes it illegal to travel to another state for an abortion.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> Regardless, Texas cannot hold you liable for an abortion that you get performed in another state. Texas can do whatever the US Supreme Court allows them to do, and if you think well-established Constitutional precedent is a firm guide on that...how do you think they have the ability to ban abortion in Texas in the first place? But even under established precedent, I don't think it's at all clear that they cannot punish you for anything you do while in Texas with the intent of getting an abortion, even if the actual abortion is performed outside of Texas. And even if they can't (based on what the courts will eventually decide) punish you, they can arrest you, charge you, try you, convict you, sentence you, and send you to prison, possibly awaiting execution, before your case is even ripe for appeal.
- hellojesus 4y ago
  Your last paragraph is true, but the former are not. States are not allowed to restrict interstate travel, and they must uniformly apply the law. And they cannot punish you for a thought-crime, meaning they cannot arrest you under the supposition that your travel is arranged with intent to get an abortion outside their jurisdiction. > Texas can do whatever the US Supreme Court allows them to do, and if you think well-established Constitutional precedent is a firm guide on that...how do you think they have the ability to ban abortion in Texas in the first place? The Constitution is exactly what gives Texas the power to regulate abortion. It does so by not explicitly enumerating that power the the federal government.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > States are not allowed to restrict interstate travel, States can restrict interstate travel for...well, lots of reasons, and preventing what state law defines as murder is certainly one of them, but there are limits on the burdens they can impose on travel. > And they cannot punish you for a thought-crime, meaning they cannot arrest you under the supposition that your travel is arranged with intent to get an abortion outside their jurisdiction. States absolutely can punish for the combination of intent and action. They can also punish under their laws a crime whose culmination happens outside of their borders when some part of it occurred within their borders. If a state can define a fetus as a person who can be murdered, they can absolutely make it illegal for someone to transport that person to any place (inside or outside the state) for the purpose of killing them.