9 ms·

> Noticing how people get stuck is a super power, and one that many great tech leads (and yes, managers) rely on to get big things done Taking it one step furt

> Noticing how people get stuck is a super power, and one that many great tech leads (and yes, managers) rely on to get big things done Taking it one step further. Noticing how you — yourself — get stuck is a superpower. But it's hard...really hard. When I get stuck on troubleshooting an issue, I can sometimes fall in this trap that my wife calls the "blackhole." I obsess over it. I cannot rid the problem from my mind. My 2.5 year old even sees it in my eyes ; she'll glance up at me, wondering where I am. Before reaching this "blackhole" state, I can start to feel when I get tunnel vision.... at which point, I distance myself from the problem. Hands off the keyboard. Go for a walk. And almost EVERY damn time, I'm able to solve the problem easily. Just needed a fresh pair of (my own) eyes, a moment to get "unstuck".

fatnoah 4y ago
>Before reaching this "blackhole" state, I can start to feel when I get tunnel vision.... at which point, I distance myself from the problem. I learned to do this as well after many late nights of making no progress, only to basically solve the issue in the shower or on the way to work the next day.
- itsmemattchung 4y ago
  I definitely feel its one of the lessons I learn over and over again. The brain has a great way to convince us: "Just a little more longer... you'll figre it out. Sometimes grit is just NOT the answer.
  - bradstewart 4y ago
    This is so, so true. At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn. Despite experiencing the "shower solution" repeatedly over the years, I still cannot get myself to let go and take a step back until I'm literally too exhausted to continue. When I'm thinking clearly, it's obvious the optimal answer is "take a break". But when I'm "in the stuck", taking a break seems like the worst possible answer. Every. Time.
    - jasonladuke0311 4y ago
      > At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn. Same here. I’ve found myself going down rabbit holes so ridiculously orthogonal to the actual problem that I was embarrassed for myself.
    - itsmemattchung 4y ago
      There must be some psychological or clinical term for this: to be stuck in some fixated state that prevents forward progress unless a break is actually taken.
      - wiredfool 4y ago
        It's one of the themes of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. A book on programming if I've ever read one.
      - pramodbiligiri 4y ago
        I've heard it being called Focussed Mode and Diffuse Mode, as described here - https://fs.blog/focused-diffuse-thinking/ https://fs.blog/focused-diffuse-thinking/ Bret Victor links to this book called Psychology of Invention in the Mathematical Field, which talks a lot about this too - http://worrydream.com/refs/Hadamard%20-%20The%20psychology%20of%20invention%20in%20the%20mathematical%20field.pdf http://worrydream.com/refs/Hadamard%20-%20The%20psychology%2...
    - barrysteve 4y ago
      We're so convinced consciousness is doing the solving that more is always better.
      - datavirtue 4y ago
        Winner.
    - hyperpallium2 4y ago
      It may be that "being stuck" is "uploading the problem and interconnections"... a necessary pre-condition for the walk, the shower etc to work. It could be that one is stuck longer than necessary for uploading... or it could be that one is only able to let go when uploading is complete... What evidence would show which it is?
  - datavirtue 4y ago
    At the first sign of inhibited progress I go do something else. It's like a reflex action now. It's almost painful how much I have to rely on my subconscious mind to develop software. Conscious mind stops working optimally...have to quit. It's not worth energy expenditure or stress.
cheschire 4y ago
This is why I start wordle in the morning, and if I don't feel "close" after 3 guesses, I put it away until the evening.
- scrumbledober 4y ago
  this sounds much less stressful than my wife and I doing it before bed every night and realizing most nights "oh shit it's 11:45 we have to do wordle in the next 15 minutes!"
  - PebblesRox 4y ago
    Thank you for the reminder! I didn't do the Wordle this morning and would have missed it today if not for your comment :)
agumonkey 4y ago
I'm trying to gather thoughts on how to approach problem solving or long task in a way to chunk steps just right to match my natural stamina. There are a few things that make working ok if not delightful: - generating ideas to try - having an idea of the space covered - keeping track of progress (even a well marked dead end feels good, it's done work) .. bookmarks in a way - placing little context notes on bookmarks so when you jump in you're ready to plug your mind in more easily - crafting a bed to try an idea with very low friction. Take a good amount of time to devise your bench/lab and then iterate smoothly. - all of this with the notion of quickly converging toward what's good and trim what's not I'm failing hard at it right now but I still believe it's one good way.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bcbrown 4y ago
My office used to be right by the local art museum, and I was a member. Whenever I felt stuck, I'd go take a half hour to look at art, and usually a solution would quickly come to mind.
- itsmemattchung 4y ago
  I'm seriously intrigued by how the unconscious mind works as it relates to problem solving. Anybody here have recommendations to literature that digs into this beautiful phenomenon of taking breaks/walks resulting in the answer manifesting itself?
  - bcbrown 4y ago
    It's not scientific literature, but I got the inspiration from the book "Pragmatic Thinking and Learning".
  - ruraljuror 4y ago
    Barbara Oakley talks about it in a Mind for Numbers: “I generally liked to work on my more difficult subjects, like math, in the morning, when I was fresh. I still practice this approach today. I have some of my best mental breakthroughs in the bathroom and shower—it’s when I take my mind off the subject that the diffuse mode is able to work its magic.”
zzo38computer 4y ago
I also like to go for walk outside, and otherwise to take a break from it. It does not always help, but often it does help. (I think it is not quite as close as "almost every time", but it does help.)
m463 4y ago
My problems get unstuck in bed, in the languishing between waking and getting out of bed. I think we mull over things when we sleep and wake up with answers... as long as we don't let them dissipate like a dream. related and interesting - the sleep doctor david walker mentioned was that when we're learning something physical skill, sleep causes lots of sped-up simulation, and we wake up better at the skill.

fatnoah 4y ago

>Before reaching this "blackhole" state, I can start to feel when I get tunnel vision.... at which point, I distance myself from the problem. I learned to do this as well after many late nights of making no progress, only to basically solve the issue in the shower or on the way to work the next day.

itsmemattchung 4y ago
I definitely feel its one of the lessons I learn over and over again. The brain has a great way to convince us: "Just a little more longer... you'll figre it out. Sometimes grit is just NOT the answer.
- bradstewart 4y ago
  This is so, so true. At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn. Despite experiencing the "shower solution" repeatedly over the years, I still cannot get myself to let go and take a step back until I'm literally too exhausted to continue. When I'm thinking clearly, it's obvious the optimal answer is "take a break". But when I'm "in the stuck", taking a break seems like the worst possible answer. Every. Time.
  - jasonladuke0311 4y ago
    > At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn. Same here. I’ve found myself going down rabbit holes so ridiculously orthogonal to the actual problem that I was embarrassed for myself.
  - itsmemattchung 4y ago
    There must be some psychological or clinical term for this: to be stuck in some fixated state that prevents forward progress unless a break is actually taken.
    - wiredfool 4y ago
      It's one of the themes of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. A book on programming if I've ever read one.
    - pramodbiligiri 4y ago
      I've heard it being called Focussed Mode and Diffuse Mode, as described here - https://fs.blog/focused-diffuse-thinking/ https://fs.blog/focused-diffuse-thinking/ Bret Victor links to this book called Psychology of Invention in the Mathematical Field, which talks a lot about this too - http://worrydream.com/refs/Hadamard%20-%20The%20psychology%20of%20invention%20in%20the%20mathematical%20field.pdf http://worrydream.com/refs/Hadamard%20-%20The%20psychology%2...
  - barrysteve 4y ago
    We're so convinced consciousness is doing the solving that more is always better.
    - datavirtue 4y ago
      Winner.
  - hyperpallium2 4y ago
    It may be that "being stuck" is "uploading the problem and interconnections"... a necessary pre-condition for the walk, the shower etc to work. It could be that one is stuck longer than necessary for uploading... or it could be that one is only able to let go when uploading is complete... What evidence would show which it is?
- datavirtue 4y ago
  At the first sign of inhibited progress I go do something else. It's like a reflex action now. It's almost painful how much I have to rely on my subconscious mind to develop software. Conscious mind stops working optimally...have to quit. It's not worth energy expenditure or stress.

cheschire 4y ago

This is why I start wordle in the morning, and if I don't feel "close" after 3 guesses, I put it away until the evening.

scrumbledober 4y ago
this sounds much less stressful than my wife and I doing it before bed every night and realizing most nights "oh shit it's 11:45 we have to do wordle in the next 15 minutes!"
- PebblesRox 4y ago
  Thank you for the reminder! I didn't do the Wordle this morning and would have missed it today if not for your comment :)

agumonkey 4y ago

I'm trying to gather thoughts on how to approach problem solving or long task in a way to chunk steps just right to match my natural stamina. There are a few things that make working ok if not delightful: - generating ideas to try - having an idea of the space covered - keeping track of progress (even a well marked dead end feels good, it's done work) .. bookmarks in a way - placing little context notes on bookmarks so when you jump in you're ready to plug your mind in more easily - crafting a bed to try an idea with very low friction. Take a good amount of time to devise your bench/lab and then iterate smoothly. - all of this with the notion of quickly converging toward what's good and trim what's not I'm failing hard at it right now but I still believe it's one good way.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bcbrown 4y ago

My office used to be right by the local art museum, and I was a member. Whenever I felt stuck, I'd go take a half hour to look at art, and usually a solution would quickly come to mind.

itsmemattchung 4y ago
I'm seriously intrigued by how the unconscious mind works as it relates to problem solving. Anybody here have recommendations to literature that digs into this beautiful phenomenon of taking breaks/walks resulting in the answer manifesting itself?
- bcbrown 4y ago
  It's not scientific literature, but I got the inspiration from the book "Pragmatic Thinking and Learning".
- ruraljuror 4y ago
  Barbara Oakley talks about it in a Mind for Numbers: “I generally liked to work on my more difficult subjects, like math, in the morning, when I was fresh. I still practice this approach today. I have some of my best mental breakthroughs in the bathroom and shower—it’s when I take my mind off the subject that the diffuse mode is able to work its magic.”

zzo38computer 4y ago

I also like to go for walk outside, and otherwise to take a break from it. It does not always help, but often it does help. (I think it is not quite as close as "almost every time", but it does help.)

m463 4y ago

My problems get unstuck in bed, in the languishing between waking and getting out of bed. I think we mull over things when we sleep and wake up with answers... as long as we don't let them dissipate like a dream. related and interesting - the sleep doctor david walker mentioned was that when we're learning something physical skill, sleep causes lots of sped-up simulation, and we wake up better at the skill.