5 ms·

And the businessman said, "Gotcha. Now imagine your doctor telling you that you have a disease and in order to continue to live this carefree life, you need a m

And the businessman said, "Gotcha. Now imagine your doctor telling you that you have a disease and in order to continue to live this carefree life, you need a million dollars for the surgery..."

HWR_14 4y ago
Jokes on you, the fisherman isn't in the US so he has universal healthcare.
- eklavya 4y ago
  Hmm, so how many of these fishermen can the system (other people) pay for?
  - eklavya 4y ago
    Downvoters should at least explain, who pays the taxes for the universal healthcare, this fisherman lifestyle sure can’t.
    - imafish 4y ago
      Working people pay the taxes. As in most other systems.
      - GrigoriyMikh 4y ago
        Shouldn't working people have more benefits/be prioritized in this case?
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    A lot. Countries tend to be fairly wealthy and have a large taxbase of non-fishermen
    - eklavya 4y ago
      Exactly, and if we keep idolising "the fisherman", the system becomes unstable. Also why would anybody? It's essentially stealing from other people. A welfare state should strive to provide for those who can't, not those who won't. Before you misunderstand, I am totally in favour of universal healthcare, my country (India) has it. Pretty sure if we can afford it with a population of our size, the wealthy nations sure can.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        The only question is if the number of fishermen grow too great. I've never seen evidence that a significant number of people want to be like the fisherman in this parable.
- GrigoriyMikh 4y ago
  Have you been outside of US? For example in Germany, good luck using "free healthcare". If you need a surgery, you will be on a long wait list and will really need a luck to live until your turn. Universal healthcare systems, at the moment, have very bad supply/demand problem, especially in developed countries, where population getting extremely old. And it's unclear how it can be solved.
- ricardobayes 4y ago
  Having lived in Europe all my life, I have yet to find one country with a well-working universal healthcare. Almost every single universal healthcare worker I met is overworked, rude, or straight up not even showing up. I keep hearing stories on a weekly basis in my friend circle that people are turned away and/or not given adequate care. They just treat you like an interruption of their day and not the reason they are there for.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    Funny, that's exactly what we're paying outrageously high prices for the privilege of experiencing here in the US too. This is typical of how the US does things: other countries don't have a perfect solution, therefore we will stick with our much worse solution.
    - sweettea 4y ago
      Have you tried a concierge medicine service? While I agree that health-insurance-based providers have a lot of service problems, concierge medicine services seem to have better experiences since they're entirely choice-based.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        Concierge medical services don't scale. Also, they exist in places with universal health care as well, so it's a wash.
  - imafish 4y ago
    Statistically, European healthcare seems to be doing fine compared to e.g. the US [0] [0]: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality...
    - GrigoriyMikh 4y ago
      Statistics presented there doesn't necessary show healthcare system performance. Life expectancy will be dependent on a lot of other things, like population genetics/diet/lifestyle. Also, regarding healthcare system quality, one of related statistics from this article are in favor of US: "30-day mortality for heart attacks and strokes is lower in the U.S. than in comparable countries". Same with ischemic stroke(and it's better in US by quiet much, 4.1 vs 6.1 30-day mortality rate per 100 patients in other countries).
- jokethrowaway 4y ago
  That's a very american thing to say. If you lived in EU you would know you can't really trust public healthcare. It's the same story everywhere: they introduce it, it works ok for a couple of years, it's a socialist success, yay... then it experiences a very sharp decline, but the government doesn't care It just seized a good portion of private economy and they're the good guys because they pay your plasters with your tax money, no matter how shitty the service is.
  - vanviegen 4y ago
    What country are you talking about? Public healthcare isn't exactly a recent thing in most European countries. And it's still working okay, with ups and downs of course.
imafish 4y ago
Now imagine, you live in a real 1st world country with social democratic values.
- VMG 4y ago
  Do doctors learn about surgery on the beach in those countries? Or do they work extremely hard for years and years? Together with millions of other highly specialized and trained people that effectively pay for the social safety net?
  - imafish 4y ago
    No, doctors and nurses learn their skills in the free, public, pretty high-quality education. I can only speak for my own country - but becoming a doctor is highly attractive here in spite of it being hard work. Nurses, not that attractive, but they are paid a decent middle class salary as compensation for the hard work.
    - VMG 4y ago
      sounds like a system that does not tolerate a high number of unproductive people
      - imafish 4y ago
        What system does?
- GrigoriyMikh 4y ago
  How country with these values will motivate someone to work as a doctor/nurse/etc? These are extremely stressful jobs, so someone working them need to have, as well, extremely high motivation.
  - imafish 4y ago
    I would assume their motivation is money and having a job with high purpose.
ellopoppit 4y ago
The fisherman replies: "nah I'm good, I eat a mediterranean diet instead of a poisonous american diet, get plenty of vitamin D and am not stuck inside all day, have a genuine community that I'm a part of rather than being socially isolated and chronically stressed, anxious, and depressed like you are, and have a spiritual connection to nature so I'm not existentially terrified of death like you are. I'll take those odds."
aeturnum 4y ago
There's a concept used to compare alternatives called a "quality-adjusted life year": basically people like living in ways that make them happy, dislike hard years. There are many places where you'll get very solid treatment as part of social insurance, but even in places where you would not I think your premise is flawed. If you halve your quality of life in order to extend a...60 year lifetime to 70 years it would not be a good exchange.

And the businessman said, "Gotcha. Now imagine your doctor telling you that you have a disease and in order to continue to live this carefree life, you need a million dollars for the surgery..."

HWR_14 4y ago

Jokes on you, the fisherman isn't in the US so he has universal healthcare.

eklavya 4y ago
Hmm, so how many of these fishermen can the system (other people) pay for?
- eklavya 4y ago
  Downvoters should at least explain, who pays the taxes for the universal healthcare, this fisherman lifestyle sure can’t.
  - imafish 4y ago
    Working people pay the taxes. As in most other systems.
    - GrigoriyMikh 4y ago
      Shouldn't working people have more benefits/be prioritized in this case?
- HWR_14 4y ago
  A lot. Countries tend to be fairly wealthy and have a large taxbase of non-fishermen
  - eklavya 4y ago
    Exactly, and if we keep idolising "the fisherman", the system becomes unstable. Also why would anybody? It's essentially stealing from other people. A welfare state should strive to provide for those who can't, not those who won't. Before you misunderstand, I am totally in favour of universal healthcare, my country (India) has it. Pretty sure if we can afford it with a population of our size, the wealthy nations sure can.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      The only question is if the number of fishermen grow too great. I've never seen evidence that a significant number of people want to be like the fisherman in this parable.
GrigoriyMikh 4y ago
Have you been outside of US? For example in Germany, good luck using "free healthcare". If you need a surgery, you will be on a long wait list and will really need a luck to live until your turn. Universal healthcare systems, at the moment, have very bad supply/demand problem, especially in developed countries, where population getting extremely old. And it's unclear how it can be solved.
ricardobayes 4y ago
Having lived in Europe all my life, I have yet to find one country with a well-working universal healthcare. Almost every single universal healthcare worker I met is overworked, rude, or straight up not even showing up. I keep hearing stories on a weekly basis in my friend circle that people are turned away and/or not given adequate care. They just treat you like an interruption of their day and not the reason they are there for.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  Funny, that's exactly what we're paying outrageously high prices for the privilege of experiencing here in the US too. This is typical of how the US does things: other countries don't have a perfect solution, therefore we will stick with our much worse solution.
  - sweettea 4y ago
    Have you tried a concierge medicine service? While I agree that health-insurance-based providers have a lot of service problems, concierge medicine services seem to have better experiences since they're entirely choice-based.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      Concierge medical services don't scale. Also, they exist in places with universal health care as well, so it's a wash.
- imafish 4y ago
  Statistically, European healthcare seems to be doing fine compared to e.g. the US [0] [0]: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality...
  - GrigoriyMikh 4y ago
    Statistics presented there doesn't necessary show healthcare system performance. Life expectancy will be dependent on a lot of other things, like population genetics/diet/lifestyle. Also, regarding healthcare system quality, one of related statistics from this article are in favor of US: "30-day mortality for heart attacks and strokes is lower in the U.S. than in comparable countries". Same with ischemic stroke(and it's better in US by quiet much, 4.1 vs 6.1 30-day mortality rate per 100 patients in other countries).
jokethrowaway 4y ago
That's a very american thing to say. If you lived in EU you would know you can't really trust public healthcare. It's the same story everywhere: they introduce it, it works ok for a couple of years, it's a socialist success, yay... then it experiences a very sharp decline, but the government doesn't care It just seized a good portion of private economy and they're the good guys because they pay your plasters with your tax money, no matter how shitty the service is.
- vanviegen 4y ago
  What country are you talking about? Public healthcare isn't exactly a recent thing in most European countries. And it's still working okay, with ups and downs of course.

imafish 4y ago

Now imagine, you live in a real 1st world country with social democratic values.

VMG 4y ago
Do doctors learn about surgery on the beach in those countries? Or do they work extremely hard for years and years? Together with millions of other highly specialized and trained people that effectively pay for the social safety net?
- imafish 4y ago
  No, doctors and nurses learn their skills in the free, public, pretty high-quality education. I can only speak for my own country - but becoming a doctor is highly attractive here in spite of it being hard work. Nurses, not that attractive, but they are paid a decent middle class salary as compensation for the hard work.
  - VMG 4y ago
    sounds like a system that does not tolerate a high number of unproductive people
    - imafish 4y ago
      What system does?
GrigoriyMikh 4y ago
How country with these values will motivate someone to work as a doctor/nurse/etc? These are extremely stressful jobs, so someone working them need to have, as well, extremely high motivation.
- imafish 4y ago
  I would assume their motivation is money and having a job with high purpose.

ellopoppit 4y ago

The fisherman replies: "nah I'm good, I eat a mediterranean diet instead of a poisonous american diet, get plenty of vitamin D and am not stuck inside all day, have a genuine community that I'm a part of rather than being socially isolated and chronically stressed, anxious, and depressed like you are, and have a spiritual connection to nature so I'm not existentially terrified of death like you are. I'll take those odds."

aeturnum 4y ago

There's a concept used to compare alternatives called a "quality-adjusted life year": basically people like living in ways that make them happy, dislike hard years. There are many places where you'll get very solid treatment as part of social insurance, but even in places where you would not I think your premise is flawed. If you halve your quality of life in order to extend a...60 year lifetime to 70 years it would not be a good exchange.