5 ms·

The problem being, of course, that if the rolls of the die are ever slightly unfavourable life without funds will be really miserable Oddly enough people menti

The problem being, of course, that if the rolls of the die are ever slightly unfavourable life without funds will be really miserable Oddly enough people mentioning that parable never actually spend their days lazily on the beach. People who don't put their money where their mouth is always rouse my inner cynic One never quite values money until they can't afford to pay for the roof above their heads or the meds that keeps them alive

maccard 4y ago
> Oddly enough people mentioning that parable never actually spend their days lazily on the beach. People who don't put their money where their mouth is always rouse my inner cynic I work from home for a small company with people I like, I get to spend my day with my partner and dog, get out walking every day, have time (and money) for the hobbies and activities that I and we want to do. I don't need to climb and push harder to achieve the life that I want, because I'm content with what I have and where I'm going.
- throwawayarnty 4y ago
  It’s great but what if the small company gets outcompeted by a competitor? Or management changes and environment deteriorates? You lose your steady salary, and if you don’t push hard to achieve then when you try to look for new jobs you find you are outcompeted or your skills outdated. If might sound dumb to work hard to achieve but those people at the top have very little trouble finding jobs, ie they are not as dependent on a specific company to make a living.
  - maccard 4y ago
    What if the big company decides that mass layoffs are happening, or cancels your project? What if investors lose confidence and my division is folded into another and I'm stuck competing with another person with the same qualifications as me for one role? > you don’t push hard to achieve then when you try to look for new jobs you find you are outcompeted or your skills outdated. Who said I don't work hard, or that my skills are outdated? I can work hard and keep up to date without chasing the next step and forgetting about what I already have. It doesn't really matter what jobs there are in the future if I get too burned out on my current job, for example.
    - Dudeman112 4y ago
      >Who said I don't work hard You're the businessman after succeeding with his plan, not the fisherman
      - maccard 4y ago
        They're both the same. The fisherman needs to work hard enough to provide and live the life he wants, with whatever contingency he's comfortable with. The businessman does too.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - simonh 4y ago
      If one and only one company is the be-all and end-all of your career, you're doing it wrong. F*'em, go get another job. Nobody owes us a living. It's up to us to be worth hiring.
      - iancmceachern 4y ago
        Job security isn't knowing your particular job is secure, it's knowing you could get another job at any moment, that's job security.
  - simonh 4y ago
    I've had my employer essentially go bust twice, and left another company that was in dire straits but managed to keep going. It's all been fine, of course you need to keep your skills up to date but the idea that one employer going to the will is the end of my career is just daft. No. Having said that I have had a close friend get his career badly derailed by health problems. That really sucked, but after some tough years he's back rebuilding his career and loving it. He's in the film and TV production industry and just loves what he does. I think the moral is, do what you love and be good at it. I honestly have no idea what I'd do if I wasn't in IT, but I love the tech and I'm decently well paid, so it's all good. Not everyone is so lucky, for sure.
ricardobayes 4y ago
Certain Spanish people especially those in bureaucracy come really close to not doing anything. I've asked for a certificate at my local town hall that takes them 3 minutes to print. This was 20 days and three in-person visits ago. They just don't want to do it. I told them I needed it to pay taxes, and they just shrugged their shoulders. Pretty crazy.
- JoiDegn 4y ago
  This is still the case? My mother told me she used to take a bottle of some alcohol to drink with them and after spending an hour or two with them she would usually get what she needed. That was in Andalucia which I guess might be a special case even in Spain...
- tluyben2 4y ago
  I (from NL) have been in ES and PT for a long time and noticed that Spanish natives make a scene when it is urgent; crying or shouting or both with certain types of (semi) gov employees. It works; I get whatever I want, fast. I don’t like it so I only do it when it actually is urgent; for most things I don’t care if it’s a week or a year so I just wait.
- EL_Loco 4y ago
  I lived in my country's capital for almost ten years, and since a huge part of the population there are in public service (you get in through a selection exam and once you get in you pretty much can't get fired, and the pay is pretty good). While I lived there, some of my friends would do this at work: Use most of their work hours to study for a higher paying public service exam. Play online multiplayer games. Everyday. (don't know if only within their department or connected to the outside) Do nothing 60% of the time. Work half the hours they were supposed to, because the whole department decided that they had enough people to turn an 8 hour shift into 4 hours and get everything done. When a new boss decided to end this and made everybody work their 8 hours, they rebelled and the department couldn't get anything done. And no one could be fired. *etc Not everybody did this, of course. I had some friends who worked their hours, and put their effort to it, but the culture was definitely messed up.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
chaostheory 4y ago
Yeah, that parable only works if you don’t have children and you live in a country with a large social safety net with a large economy to support it. Of course, if too many people take the fisherman’s route, there won’t be a large enough economy to support that social safety net.
- maccard 4y ago
  That's a very literal interpretation of the story. Another interpretation is that there are multiple paths to your goals that can be very very different and lead to the same destination.
  - Dudeman112 4y ago
    >Another interpretation is that there are multiple paths to your goals that can be very very different and lead to the same destination That's a very generous interpretation of the story that ignores the adjectives used to describe the businessman and the fisherman
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    Because imo it’s not a very useful parable. It ignores a good portion of reality in order to make its narrative work.
theplumber 4y ago
This reminds me of the life in the country side. If you watch a documentary or movie it may see like a great/no-stress life but in reality it's quite the opposite.
- tartoran 4y ago
  Life in the countryside is a lot of work, sometimes backbreaking work, it ain’t easy peasy. But life is simpler and more in tune with nature. Some prefer that, there is really nothing wrong with it.
jjj123 4y ago
I don’t think that parable is necessarily saying you should go live on the beach, but it does effectively point out the absurdity of (American) work culture. It’s not cynical to admit that your situation is absurd without changing it, especially since our society punishes anyone who doesn’t go with the absurdity.
ryandrake 4y ago
Also, the parable is terrible because it tries to equate the businessman's planned end state with the fisherman's current state. But they are not equal because the parable ignores risk and options for the future. The businessman finally enjoying life on the beach also has the resources to weather a surprise injury or sickness, to raise children, to find a different hobby or to change his mind and decide he'd rather travel than sit on the beach. The fisherman doesn't have any of these options. If the beach town gets wiped out in a hurricane, the businessman has the resources to move, but the fisherman does not. I agree with you that almost everyone in my life who told me "Hey, money isn't everything" was already very wealthy.

maccard 4y ago

> Oddly enough people mentioning that parable never actually spend their days lazily on the beach. People who don't put their money where their mouth is always rouse my inner cynic I work from home for a small company with people I like, I get to spend my day with my partner and dog, get out walking every day, have time (and money) for the hobbies and activities that I and we want to do. I don't need to climb and push harder to achieve the life that I want, because I'm content with what I have and where I'm going.

throwawayarnty 4y ago
It’s great but what if the small company gets outcompeted by a competitor? Or management changes and environment deteriorates? You lose your steady salary, and if you don’t push hard to achieve then when you try to look for new jobs you find you are outcompeted or your skills outdated. If might sound dumb to work hard to achieve but those people at the top have very little trouble finding jobs, ie they are not as dependent on a specific company to make a living.
- maccard 4y ago
  What if the big company decides that mass layoffs are happening, or cancels your project? What if investors lose confidence and my division is folded into another and I'm stuck competing with another person with the same qualifications as me for one role? > you don’t push hard to achieve then when you try to look for new jobs you find you are outcompeted or your skills outdated. Who said I don't work hard, or that my skills are outdated? I can work hard and keep up to date without chasing the next step and forgetting about what I already have. It doesn't really matter what jobs there are in the future if I get too burned out on my current job, for example.
  - Dudeman112 4y ago
    >Who said I don't work hard You're the businessman after succeeding with his plan, not the fisherman
    - maccard 4y ago
      They're both the same. The fisherman needs to work hard enough to provide and live the life he wants, with whatever contingency he's comfortable with. The businessman does too.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - simonh 4y ago
    If one and only one company is the be-all and end-all of your career, you're doing it wrong. F*'em, go get another job. Nobody owes us a living. It's up to us to be worth hiring.
    - iancmceachern 4y ago
      Job security isn't knowing your particular job is secure, it's knowing you could get another job at any moment, that's job security.
- simonh 4y ago
  I've had my employer essentially go bust twice, and left another company that was in dire straits but managed to keep going. It's all been fine, of course you need to keep your skills up to date but the idea that one employer going to the will is the end of my career is just daft. No. Having said that I have had a close friend get his career badly derailed by health problems. That really sucked, but after some tough years he's back rebuilding his career and loving it. He's in the film and TV production industry and just loves what he does. I think the moral is, do what you love and be good at it. I honestly have no idea what I'd do if I wasn't in IT, but I love the tech and I'm decently well paid, so it's all good. Not everyone is so lucky, for sure.

ricardobayes 4y ago

Certain Spanish people especially those in bureaucracy come really close to not doing anything. I've asked for a certificate at my local town hall that takes them 3 minutes to print. This was 20 days and three in-person visits ago. They just don't want to do it. I told them I needed it to pay taxes, and they just shrugged their shoulders. Pretty crazy.

JoiDegn 4y ago
This is still the case? My mother told me she used to take a bottle of some alcohol to drink with them and after spending an hour or two with them she would usually get what she needed. That was in Andalucia which I guess might be a special case even in Spain...
tluyben2 4y ago
I (from NL) have been in ES and PT for a long time and noticed that Spanish natives make a scene when it is urgent; crying or shouting or both with certain types of (semi) gov employees. It works; I get whatever I want, fast. I don’t like it so I only do it when it actually is urgent; for most things I don’t care if it’s a week or a year so I just wait.
EL_Loco 4y ago
I lived in my country's capital for almost ten years, and since a huge part of the population there are in public service (you get in through a selection exam and once you get in you pretty much can't get fired, and the pay is pretty good). While I lived there, some of my friends would do this at work: Use most of their work hours to study for a higher paying public service exam. Play online multiplayer games. Everyday. (don't know if only within their department or connected to the outside) Do nothing 60% of the time. Work half the hours they were supposed to, because the whole department decided that they had enough people to turn an 8 hour shift into 4 hours and get everything done. When a new boss decided to end this and made everybody work their 8 hours, they rebelled and the department couldn't get anything done. And no one could be fired. *etc Not everybody did this, of course. I had some friends who worked their hours, and put their effort to it, but the culture was definitely messed up.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

chaostheory 4y ago

Yeah, that parable only works if you don’t have children and you live in a country with a large social safety net with a large economy to support it. Of course, if too many people take the fisherman’s route, there won’t be a large enough economy to support that social safety net.

maccard 4y ago
That's a very literal interpretation of the story. Another interpretation is that there are multiple paths to your goals that can be very very different and lead to the same destination.
- Dudeman112 4y ago
  >Another interpretation is that there are multiple paths to your goals that can be very very different and lead to the same destination That's a very generous interpretation of the story that ignores the adjectives used to describe the businessman and the fisherman
- chaostheory 4y ago
  Because imo it’s not a very useful parable. It ignores a good portion of reality in order to make its narrative work.

theplumber 4y ago

This reminds me of the life in the country side. If you watch a documentary or movie it may see like a great/no-stress life but in reality it's quite the opposite.

tartoran 4y ago
Life in the countryside is a lot of work, sometimes backbreaking work, it ain’t easy peasy. But life is simpler and more in tune with nature. Some prefer that, there is really nothing wrong with it.

jjj123 4y ago

I don’t think that parable is necessarily saying you should go live on the beach, but it does effectively point out the absurdity of (American) work culture. It’s not cynical to admit that your situation is absurd without changing it, especially since our society punishes anyone who doesn’t go with the absurdity.

ryandrake 4y ago

Also, the parable is terrible because it tries to equate the businessman's planned end state with the fisherman's current state. But they are not equal because the parable ignores risk and options for the future. The businessman finally enjoying life on the beach also has the resources to weather a surprise injury or sickness, to raise children, to find a different hobby or to change his mind and decide he'd rather travel than sit on the beach. The fisherman doesn't have any of these options. If the beach town gets wiped out in a hurricane, the businessman has the resources to move, but the fisherman does not. I agree with you that almost everyone in my life who told me "Hey, money isn't everything" was already very wealthy.