5 ms·

Could you expand on that? To me the second quote seems to support the reading of LOTR etc. as part of an attempt to create/ codify an English myth cycle

by tomgp 4y ago

Psyladine 4y ago
The last sentence is Tolkien admitting he aborted the project. He wrote The Hobbit as something of a children's tale in a bout of inspiration, and the LoTR when his publisher was weirded out by the alien nature of the silmarillion, asking instead for "more fun stuff with hobbits." This can best be seen in the history of middle earth, his son's chronicle of the writing process for his father's work; volume VI covers the fellowship of the ring, and it is a doozy in first drafts compared to the mainstream published version. He basically tried to reboot Bilbo, and in later drafts his son, going on another quest for dragon gold. It was only after the thing was in full swing that those old impulses and sources found their way into the fabric of the story, sort of figuring out where it was going based on how far he'd wandered in the draft phase. Anyway he wasn't trying to build english myths when he wrote the books he is famous for, that was more a young & ambitious college student's feverdream.
- peeters 4y ago
  > Anyway he wasn't trying to build english myths when he wrote the books he is famous for, that was more a young & ambitious college student's feverdream. If that feverish worldbuilding formed the ultimate setting of LoTR, would it not be relevant in evaluating that world?
  - chx 4y ago
    It didn't. A few ideas from BOLT survive in the Silmarillion but it is certainly not a setting of LotR. Remember that neither Hobbit nor LotR originally was even in the Silmarillion universe it just sorta grew to be there. Fitting the Hobbit in actually is quite difficult.
    - peeters 4y ago
      > Remember that neither Hobbit nor LotR originally was even in the Silmarillion universe it just sorta grew to be there. Fitting the Hobbit in actually is quite difficult. We're not talking about some abandoned setting of LotR, we're talking about the world of the book that was actually published. Which is absolutely the world of the Silmarillion (also as published).
      - chx 4y ago
        Well, yes, but what I am saying is that the few ideas that survived from BOLT into Silmarillion didn't form LotR -- they are too distant relatives so to speak.

Could you expand on that? To me the second quote seems to support the reading of LOTR etc. as part of an attempt to create/ codify an English myth cycle

by tomgp 4y ago

Could you expand on that? To me the second quote seems to support the reading of LOTR etc. as part of an attempt to create/ codify an English myth cycle

Psyladine 4y ago

The last sentence is Tolkien admitting he aborted the project. He wrote The Hobbit as something of a children's tale in a bout of inspiration, and the LoTR when his publisher was weirded out by the alien nature of the silmarillion, asking instead for "more fun stuff with hobbits." This can best be seen in the history of middle earth, his son's chronicle of the writing process for his father's work; volume VI covers the fellowship of the ring, and it is a doozy in first drafts compared to the mainstream published version. He basically tried to reboot Bilbo, and in later drafts his son, going on another quest for dragon gold. It was only after the thing was in full swing that those old impulses and sources found their way into the fabric of the story, sort of figuring out where it was going based on how far he'd wandered in the draft phase. Anyway he wasn't trying to build english myths when he wrote the books he is famous for, that was more a young & ambitious college student's feverdream.

peeters 4y ago
> Anyway he wasn't trying to build english myths when he wrote the books he is famous for, that was more a young & ambitious college student's feverdream. If that feverish worldbuilding formed the ultimate setting of LoTR, would it not be relevant in evaluating that world?
- chx 4y ago
  It didn't. A few ideas from BOLT survive in the Silmarillion but it is certainly not a setting of LotR. Remember that neither Hobbit nor LotR originally was even in the Silmarillion universe it just sorta grew to be there. Fitting the Hobbit in actually is quite difficult.
  - peeters 4y ago
    > Remember that neither Hobbit nor LotR originally was even in the Silmarillion universe it just sorta grew to be there. Fitting the Hobbit in actually is quite difficult. We're not talking about some abandoned setting of LotR, we're talking about the world of the book that was actually published. Which is absolutely the world of the Silmarillion (also as published).
    - chx 4y ago
      Well, yes, but what I am saying is that the few ideas that survived from BOLT into Silmarillion didn't form LotR -- they are too distant relatives so to speak.