5 ms·

Please excuse my ignorance but are there new patents coming in every year or is it more like mp3 where we had a patent but eventually it expired? My question is

by pooper 4y ago

Please excuse my ignorance but are there new patents coming in every year or is it more like mp3 where we had a patent but eventually it expired? My question is like will we have e ink in about twenty years?

londons_explore 4y ago
While any company is trying to do R&D and sell product, there tends to be new patents each year. That means there never a nice 20 year boundary when it becomes safe to build on top of the tech, because you'll always have the threat of a lawsuit that you are violating one of the newer patents in your implementation. And the costs of such litigation deters investors, even if you would have a good chance of winning.
bayindirh 4y ago
The methods or refreshing e-ink displays are called "Wave Functions" in e-ink parlance, and they're actually implemented in software. However, somehow they're so closely guarded, and even if you have top of the line e-ink reader, it might not come with a license for a nice Wave Function which refreshes your display very nicely. For example, one of the most attractive features of Kindles is they use the best Wave Functions available for their displays (they may even licensed it exclusively) which refreshes the screens instantly and smoothly. My Kobo, while using the same screen, has more clunky refreshing modes built in. Moreover, it seems, not all methods are provided on every CPU architecture, and you can't see the code of these things. Lastly, these methods are probably improved upon and re-patented to keep the barrier for entry pretty high. New screens are definitely developed with more features, and they need new Wave Functions to work as expected.
- robinsoh 4y ago
  > The methods or refreshing e-ink displays are called "Wave Functions" in e-ink parlance, and they're actually implemented in software. I've never heard of "wave functions" in the context of electrophoretic displays nor have I ever seen a widely used commercial e-ink controller implement a software update method. Do you mean waveform table? All of them that I've seen in commercial use rely on hardware updates to perform the waveform table processing. Eg: here's the software used to setup the hardware used on most ebook readers: https://github.com/UDOOboard/Kernel_Unico/blob/master/drivers/video/mxc/mxc_epdc_fb.c https://github.com/UDOOboard/Kernel_Unico/blob/master/driver... Could you share some citations or links to what specific thing you're referring to?
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    I've briefly looked for the things I've read in the past but failed to find them currently. Will do when I return home, and will send another reply. I don't like when I can't find the references I remember so vividly.
  - russh 4y ago
    https://github.com/vroland/epdiy/tree/master/src/epd_driver/waveforms https://github.com/vroland/epdiy/tree/master/src/epd_driver/...
    - robinsoh 4y ago
      Please clarify what you are attempting to communicate with the link to the header file, otherwise it looks like you just googled and gave a link to something that you yourself don't really understand.
  - FullyFunctional 4y ago
    It would be hard to miss as it’s required to display anything. However, most dev kits come with a controller which embeds a [proprietary] set of waveforms. That however leaves you with conservative implementations and far from state-of-the-art.
    - robinsoh 4y ago
      > most dev kits come with a controller which embeds a [proprietary] set of waveforms. That however leaves you with conservative implementations and far from state-of-the-art. Please clarify what dev kits you are referring to. What do you mean state-of-the-art?
      - FullyFunctional 4y ago
        There's a lots of dev kits, but take for example https://shopkits.eink.com/product/ice-driving-board/ https://shopkits.eink.com/product/ice-driving-board/ State of the art (at least a two years ago): Dasung Paperlike HD-F and reMarkable 2. You'll not get the performance the those two with a dev kit like the one I linked. Disclaimer: owns too many eInk devices (including Dasung Paperlike HD-F and the truly reMarkable 2), but haven't implemented any of this myself.

by pooper 4y ago

londons_explore 4y ago

While any company is trying to do R&D and sell product, there tends to be new patents each year. That means there never a nice 20 year boundary when it becomes safe to build on top of the tech, because you'll always have the threat of a lawsuit that you are violating one of the newer patents in your implementation. And the costs of such litigation deters investors, even if you would have a good chance of winning.

bayindirh 4y ago

The methods or refreshing e-ink displays are called "Wave Functions" in e-ink parlance, and they're actually implemented in software. However, somehow they're so closely guarded, and even if you have top of the line e-ink reader, it might not come with a license for a nice Wave Function which refreshes your display very nicely. For example, one of the most attractive features of Kindles is they use the best Wave Functions available for their displays (they may even licensed it exclusively) which refreshes the screens instantly and smoothly. My Kobo, while using the same screen, has more clunky refreshing modes built in. Moreover, it seems, not all methods are provided on every CPU architecture, and you can't see the code of these things. Lastly, these methods are probably improved upon and re-patented to keep the barrier for entry pretty high. New screens are definitely developed with more features, and they need new Wave Functions to work as expected.

robinsoh 4y ago
> The methods or refreshing e-ink displays are called "Wave Functions" in e-ink parlance, and they're actually implemented in software. I've never heard of "wave functions" in the context of electrophoretic displays nor have I ever seen a widely used commercial e-ink controller implement a software update method. Do you mean waveform table? All of them that I've seen in commercial use rely on hardware updates to perform the waveform table processing. Eg: here's the software used to setup the hardware used on most ebook readers: https://github.com/UDOOboard/Kernel_Unico/blob/master/drivers/video/mxc/mxc_epdc_fb.c https://github.com/UDOOboard/Kernel_Unico/blob/master/driver... Could you share some citations or links to what specific thing you're referring to?
- bayindirh 4y ago
  I've briefly looked for the things I've read in the past but failed to find them currently. Will do when I return home, and will send another reply. I don't like when I can't find the references I remember so vividly.
- russh 4y ago
  https://github.com/vroland/epdiy/tree/master/src/epd_driver/waveforms https://github.com/vroland/epdiy/tree/master/src/epd_driver/...
  - robinsoh 4y ago
    Please clarify what you are attempting to communicate with the link to the header file, otherwise it looks like you just googled and gave a link to something that you yourself don't really understand.
- FullyFunctional 4y ago
  It would be hard to miss as it’s required to display anything. However, most dev kits come with a controller which embeds a [proprietary] set of waveforms. That however leaves you with conservative implementations and far from state-of-the-art.
  - robinsoh 4y ago
    > most dev kits come with a controller which embeds a [proprietary] set of waveforms. That however leaves you with conservative implementations and far from state-of-the-art. Please clarify what dev kits you are referring to. What do you mean state-of-the-art?
    - FullyFunctional 4y ago
      There's a lots of dev kits, but take for example https://shopkits.eink.com/product/ice-driving-board/ https://shopkits.eink.com/product/ice-driving-board/ State of the art (at least a two years ago): Dasung Paperlike HD-F and reMarkable 2. You'll not get the performance the those two with a dev kit like the one I linked. Disclaimer: owns too many eInk devices (including Dasung Paperlike HD-F and the truly reMarkable 2), but haven't implemented any of this myself.