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The Pervasive Problem–and Far-Reaching Impact–Of Tree Poaching

46 points by memorable 4y ago

known 4y ago
"God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages" --Jacques Deval (b. 1895)
Spooky23 4y ago
My parents dealt with this - people came in when they were on vacation and clear cut about 3 acres of land in a remote part of their property. Probably for firewood.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  > when they were on vacation locals then, people who know your parents
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    Definitely locals. The problem with small towns is everyone knows everyone’s business. I know of a few cases where valuable trees were specifically targeted by thieves. Black Walnuts in particular can be worth well into the six figures.
    - fingerlocks 4y ago
      six figures? Black walnut is $10-$20 per bf at my local lumber yard. Taking the lowest six figure amount and the highest lumber yard price, that would require a black walnut tree that is 100 times larger than the typical northwest fir.
      - genocidicbunny 4y ago
        Perhaps the difference between the lumber cost and the replacement cost? Replacing an old, large tree can easily get into the six figure ranges because in most jurisdictions, you'd have to replace like for like. So to replace a 100 year old black walnut, you'd need to find another 100 year old black walnut, transport it, transplant it, hope it survives (so you don't need to repeat the process.)
    - itronitron 4y ago
      A relative of mine had several very old hardwood trees (Cherry and others) removed from their forest in Pennsylvania.
DFHippie 4y ago
This happened to my mother-in-law. She was and remains extremely poor. Her mother died and left her the family home, the most valuable piece of which was a large black walnut tree. Her brother cut down the tree and sold it without permission or compensation. I've seen this in Maine as well: land under nature conservancy where someone has gone in and clear cut all but a scrim of wood next to the road where the alders and brush grow thicker. This particular wood was later bought out of conservancy and completely cleared to make a mansion surrounded by surveillance cameras, so I guess it wasn't that much of a loss in the end. It had been the only land left on the point, after forest fires and logging, with any trees over a hundred years old.
Fargoan 4y ago
You all would probably be interested in this article too https://www.hcn.org/issues/49.5/busting-the-tree-ring https://www.hcn.org/issues/49.5/busting-the-tree-ring
frankharv 4y ago
Here in Virginia we call it tree jacking. Strange business model indeed. Regulation has made tree poaching very lucrative. Gibson Guitars had their factory raided over wood. https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2011/08/31/140090116/why-gibson-guitar-was-raided-by-the-justice-department https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2011/08/31/140090116/...
bergenty 4y ago
They used to do this with sandalwood in India until the government crushed the poaching. There is very little now. Of course the “crushing” was very unethically which basically involved executing poachers on sight.
- wiradikusuma 4y ago
  you mean giving them a taste of their own medicine?
  - adrianN 4y ago
    In many cases poachers, of trees or other things, are poor people for whom poaching provides a means to survive. I think it's almost always better to blame and try to improve economic factors than blaming individuals. We need to come up with other ways for these people to feed their families.
    - natch 4y ago
      >We need to come up other ways Or they do. There are plenty of other ways.
- anoncow 4y ago
  Relevant Indian movie - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushpa:_The_Rise https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushpa:_The_Rise
iJohnDoe 4y ago
Unfortunately, there is also such a thing as stealing entire trees. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spade https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spade
- jephson 4y ago
  This reminds me of a recent documentary about a billionaire transporting trees, often purchased from families in financial distress, to his private fantasy garden: Taming The Garden https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taming_the_Garden https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taming_the_Garden

46 points by memorable 4y ago

"God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages" --Jacques Deval (b. 1895)

My parents dealt with this - people came in when they were on vacation and clear cut about 3 acres of land in a remote part of their property. Probably for firewood.

mistrial9 4y ago
> when they were on vacation locals then, people who know your parents
- Spooky23 4y ago
  Definitely locals. The problem with small towns is everyone knows everyone’s business. I know of a few cases where valuable trees were specifically targeted by thieves. Black Walnuts in particular can be worth well into the six figures.
  - fingerlocks 4y ago
    six figures? Black walnut is $10-$20 per bf at my local lumber yard. Taking the lowest six figure amount and the highest lumber yard price, that would require a black walnut tree that is 100 times larger than the typical northwest fir.
    - genocidicbunny 4y ago
      Perhaps the difference between the lumber cost and the replacement cost? Replacing an old, large tree can easily get into the six figure ranges because in most jurisdictions, you'd have to replace like for like. So to replace a 100 year old black walnut, you'd need to find another 100 year old black walnut, transport it, transplant it, hope it survives (so you don't need to repeat the process.)
  - itronitron 4y ago
    A relative of mine had several very old hardwood trees (Cherry and others) removed from their forest in Pennsylvania.

DFHippie 4y ago

This happened to my mother-in-law. She was and remains extremely poor. Her mother died and left her the family home, the most valuable piece of which was a large black walnut tree. Her brother cut down the tree and sold it without permission or compensation. I've seen this in Maine as well: land under nature conservancy where someone has gone in and clear cut all but a scrim of wood next to the road where the alders and brush grow thicker. This particular wood was later bought out of conservancy and completely cleared to make a mansion surrounded by surveillance cameras, so I guess it wasn't that much of a loss in the end. It had been the only land left on the point, after forest fires and logging, with any trees over a hundred years old.

Fargoan 4y ago

You all would probably be interested in this article too https://www.hcn.org/issues/49.5/busting-the-tree-ring https://www.hcn.org/issues/49.5/busting-the-tree-ring

frankharv 4y ago

Here in Virginia we call it tree jacking. Strange business model indeed. Regulation has made tree poaching very lucrative. Gibson Guitars had their factory raided over wood. https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2011/08/31/140090116/why-gibson-guitar-was-raided-by-the-justice-department https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2011/08/31/140090116/...

bergenty 4y ago

They used to do this with sandalwood in India until the government crushed the poaching. There is very little now. Of course the “crushing” was very unethically which basically involved executing poachers on sight.

wiradikusuma 4y ago
you mean giving them a taste of their own medicine?
- adrianN 4y ago
  In many cases poachers, of trees or other things, are poor people for whom poaching provides a means to survive. I think it's almost always better to blame and try to improve economic factors than blaming individuals. We need to come up with other ways for these people to feed their families.
  - natch 4y ago
    >We need to come up other ways Or they do. There are plenty of other ways.
anoncow 4y ago
Relevant Indian movie - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushpa:_The_Rise https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushpa:_The_Rise

iJohnDoe 4y ago

Unfortunately, there is also such a thing as stealing entire trees. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spade https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spade

jephson 4y ago
This reminds me of a recent documentary about a billionaire transporting trees, often purchased from families in financial distress, to his private fantasy garden: Taming The Garden https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taming_the_Garden https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taming_the_Garden