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There's a whole lot of devices like this around at the moment but the keyboard layouts are painful. Their brand is "no spacebars included", but it absolutely r

There's a whole lot of devices like this around at the moment but the keyboard layouts are painful. Their brand is "no spacebars included", but it absolutely rules out any serious use.

jancsika 4y ago
Good catch on that. It looks like there's a single regular-sized key for space, like some kind of fever-dream spacebar. :) Since it's hackable, I wonder if there's a way for the author to produce and ship a long spacebar that can be switched out for four or five of those keys at the bottom. I assume he has control over everything from the keyboard firmware to the OS, so it seems doable.
- chartreusek 4y ago
  It is, just like the regular full sized MNT reform. You can reprogram the keyboard firmware (or even get a different PCB made as some people have done for the regular one). Part of the limitations on the layout is making it fit in a standard size while using off the shelf keycaps. The full sized reform only uses 1u and 1.5u key caps so the row spacing is off, but it eliminated having a bunch of odd sizes. Which also meant the space bar was split in two. Honestly for such a small device there's always going to be compromises in the keyboard. Either excessively small keys, or non-standard layouts. Just look at any of the UMPC offerings from the late 2000s, the Pocket CHIP, or even more modern ones like the GPD handhelds.
rgoulter 4y ago
I'm currently using a 5x12 keyboard as is. I think seeing it in a smaller form factor is wonderful. One advantage to designs like this is the thumbs get to press more keys (2-3 each). I imagine that especially with such a small device, taking up a lot of space when the thumb is just going to press the spacebar in the same place anyway is a poor design choice. Maybe with the smaller form factor, there'd be more benefit to 'splitting' the 10 alphabetical columns so they're each on the outer 5 columns, which would mean the hands have more spacing between them.
mkj 4y ago
A couple of years ago I moved to the same ortho 12x5 layout on a full size keyboard with single key for space. The space was easy to get used to (my old keyboards had a worn patch on the spacebar where it was always hit!), but the non-staggered keyboard is a lot more of a difference. Sensible for saving horizontal space though.
- pbronez 4y ago
  Keyboardio does this, works great for me.
codeflo 4y ago
In addition to the spacebar issue, the fact that the rows aren’t shifted, which by row 3 means the Z is below the Q instead of below the W, will make your brain melt.
- chartreusek 4y ago
  Some people actually prefer that layout too, it's an orthographic layout, which is likely less confusing that the slightly off layout of the full size reform. On the full reform the second row is 1.5 units over rather than 1.25, and the third is 2 units instead of 1.75. It messes you up a little at first, but you get quickly used to the layout and even switching back to standard is not an issue. Many handheld devices in the age of physical keyboards used grid aligned qwerty keyboards, so it's not unique here.
  - idle_zealot 4y ago
    > orthographic layout I think you mean "ortholinear". But yeah, I use a 4x12 ortholinear as by primary keyboard. Took a week or two to get used to, but I prefer this alignment to the usual staggered one now. With staggered rows I always felt like I was kind of guessing where certain keys were. Now every key is either under one of my fingers' resting position, or one key away from one (if you count diagonals as one key distance for tab/return).

There's a whole lot of devices like this around at the moment but the keyboard layouts are painful. Their brand is "no spacebars included", but it absolutely rules out any serious use.

jancsika 4y ago

Good catch on that. It looks like there's a single regular-sized key for space, like some kind of fever-dream spacebar. :) Since it's hackable, I wonder if there's a way for the author to produce and ship a long spacebar that can be switched out for four or five of those keys at the bottom. I assume he has control over everything from the keyboard firmware to the OS, so it seems doable.

chartreusek 4y ago
It is, just like the regular full sized MNT reform. You can reprogram the keyboard firmware (or even get a different PCB made as some people have done for the regular one). Part of the limitations on the layout is making it fit in a standard size while using off the shelf keycaps. The full sized reform only uses 1u and 1.5u key caps so the row spacing is off, but it eliminated having a bunch of odd sizes. Which also meant the space bar was split in two. Honestly for such a small device there's always going to be compromises in the keyboard. Either excessively small keys, or non-standard layouts. Just look at any of the UMPC offerings from the late 2000s, the Pocket CHIP, or even more modern ones like the GPD handhelds.

rgoulter 4y ago

I'm currently using a 5x12 keyboard as is. I think seeing it in a smaller form factor is wonderful. One advantage to designs like this is the thumbs get to press more keys (2-3 each). I imagine that especially with such a small device, taking up a lot of space when the thumb is just going to press the spacebar in the same place anyway is a poor design choice. Maybe with the smaller form factor, there'd be more benefit to 'splitting' the 10 alphabetical columns so they're each on the outer 5 columns, which would mean the hands have more spacing between them.

mkj 4y ago

A couple of years ago I moved to the same ortho 12x5 layout on a full size keyboard with single key for space. The space was easy to get used to (my old keyboards had a worn patch on the spacebar where it was always hit!), but the non-staggered keyboard is a lot more of a difference. Sensible for saving horizontal space though.

pbronez 4y ago
Keyboardio does this, works great for me.

codeflo 4y ago

In addition to the spacebar issue, the fact that the rows aren’t shifted, which by row 3 means the Z is below the Q instead of below the W, will make your brain melt.

chartreusek 4y ago
Some people actually prefer that layout too, it's an orthographic layout, which is likely less confusing that the slightly off layout of the full size reform. On the full reform the second row is 1.5 units over rather than 1.25, and the third is 2 units instead of 1.75. It messes you up a little at first, but you get quickly used to the layout and even switching back to standard is not an issue. Many handheld devices in the age of physical keyboards used grid aligned qwerty keyboards, so it's not unique here.
- idle_zealot 4y ago
  > orthographic layout I think you mean "ortholinear". But yeah, I use a 4x12 ortholinear as by primary keyboard. Took a week or two to get used to, but I prefer this alignment to the usual staggered one now. With staggered rows I always felt like I was kind of guessing where certain keys were. Now every key is either under one of my fingers' resting position, or one key away from one (if you count diagonals as one key distance for tab/return).