5 ms·
What's the goal here? Convince law abiding citizens to leave California?
by rhexs 4y ago
What's the goal here? Convince law abiding citizens to leave California?
- efitz 4y agoDoxxing is always about intimidation, shaming and invitation to retaliation.
- woodruffw 4y agoWhere exactly is the "doxxing"? This data appears to have come from individuals who willingly filled out government forms in a state with a FOIA-style law (the PRA) that includes all government information not explicitly excluded. This is consistent with how FOIA and CCW laws interact in most states. For example, here's NY's explanation of how SAFE and FOIL interact[1]. [1]: https://safeact.ny.gov/protect-your-privacy-foil-exemption https://safeact.ny.gov/protect-your-privacy-foil-exemption
- efitz 4y agoSo it would be ok to publish the welfare rolls, because applying for WIC or Section 8 is just filling out forms and there are FOIA laws?
- woodruffw 4y agoFirst of all, WIC and Section 8 are Federal programs/statues. Their state counterparts are explicitly excluded. Why? Because there's no obvious public interest in them. This is in contrast to firearms, where I have a public interest in knowing whether my neighbor has the ability to shoot me the next time I make a complaint about him.
- clarkmoody 4y agoWelfare rolls tell you which neighbors are living off the fruits of your labor.
- woodruffw 4y agoThat would be your boss, not your local welfare recipient.
- ei8htyfi5e 4y agoThis comment rubs me the wrong way. He could stab you if you make a complaint about him too. Just saying. A gun doesn’t make you more violent.
- woodruffw 4y agoSure. He can also bash me over the head with a big rock, or spray me with bear hormones and dump me in the woods. Like everything else in our society, we balance potentials with exigency, immediacy, and scale. A gun trumps a knife in all of these regards.
- ei8htyfi5e 4y agoYou sound like a fearful person. Best you stay inside and make more calls to the police so they can take care of you.
- somebehemoth 4y agoThe gun owner is the fearful person. Not owning a gun in this country requires bravery considering our neighbors may be armed to the teeth. This comment takes no side in the issue of the leak. Just stating the fact that many purchase guns out of fear for their own safety.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y agoDo you own a fire extinguisher out of your fear of fire or a practical choice that you might need a tool to deal with a fire?
- woodruffw 4y agoThese are all examples. You can do some cursory background on me and determine that I don't live in California, and that my neighbors are extremely unlikely to own guns.
- scarmig 4y agoIs there a compelling public interest? What percentage of shootings in California in the past, I dunno, decade have involved someone with a CCW shooting a neighbor over a complaint being filed against them? Is it nonzero? If the number of shootings where a CCW holder has shot a neighbor over a complaint is substantially smaller than the number of cases where a CCW holder has not shot a neighbor over a complaint, doesn't this just serve to make holding a CCW intimidating in a way that most CCW holders neither want nor need? Most directly relevant to your public interest argument, is the rate of people shooting neighbors over a complaint substantially higher among CCW-permit holders than non-CCW-permit holders?
- woodruffw 4y agoI think I would love concrete numbers as much as you would. Until then, "California neighbor dispute shot" gives me about 6.3 million results on Google. When I add "concealed carry" as a mandatory term, it reduces to about 1.7 million.
- scarmig 4y agoIt seems like the California Attorney General's office would have numbers on exactly that, though, as it records the identities of both shooters and people who hold CCW permits. Is the claim you're making that 1.7 million CCW permit holders have shot another neighbor over a dispute? The first result I got from your search query was this https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-tehama-county-shooting-tic-toc-20171116-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-tehama-county-shoo... (archive https://web.archive.org/web/20210718215711/https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-tehama-county-shooting-tic-toc-20171116-story.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210718215711/https://www.latim...) > Neal fired eight rounds into a Ford F-250 occupied by a mother and her son who were headed to school. The boy suffered non-life-threatening wounds, but the mother was seriously injured, Johnston said. The mother, who had a concealed carry permit, pulled out her own handgun but was unable to fire it before Neal drove away, Johnston said.
- woodruffw 4y ago
- _-david-_ 4y agoEverybody with a state ID should have their information publicly available? They voluntarily filled out government forms after all.
- woodruffw 4y agoSee above. The law makes reasonable exemptions, particularly when the information is either universally obtained (nearly everybody has a state ID) or is a consequence of privation and not in the public interest (welfare programs). CCW permits are neither of these: you opt into them, and they reflect no amount of privation while being entirely in the public interest.
- _-david-_ 4y agoHow is it in the public interest if I exercise a right? I see you claimed it above, but it doesn't seem like it to me.
- woodruffw 4y agoNot any right, this specific one. Your right to own a gun is not coextensive with your right to privacy (a right, I may remind you, that has been significantly weakened by SCOTUS this week.) See above for the public interest: people engage and escalate disputes all the time, believing that the other party is unwilling or at least incapable of conveniently murdering them. CCWs change that calculus; it's in my best interest as a member of the public to know whether my neighbor might murder me rather than merely being angry at a dispute.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y agoWhat a short sighed and foolish way to hand wave away civil rights. Read Madison on all rights are equal and even non-enumerated rights are equal.
- woodruffw 4y ago