4 ms·

They aren't Putin.

mardifoufs 4y ago
What's going on in Yemen is pretty similar to what's going on in ukraine right now. And the KSA also has a putin-like tendency of sending death squads to murder international opposition. The only reason why they seem to not be as bad for westerners is because middle eastern lives are given almost 0 value here in the west. So you'll always get some hand wavy rationalisation to justify not doing anything about the KSA, because eh it's a complex situation! While at the same time claiming that the human cost of war is so atrocious and unexcusable that nothing is off the table, no punishment is severe enough, and everyone needs to do something... when it's russian aggression. When in reality both situations are just as bad and just as unexcusable. And man I know my comment has gone on a tangent, but the cognitive dissonance and the overt downplaying that comes with it just irks me. It's so blatant too: our side always deserves nuance, justification and contextualization ( whether it's us fully supporting the KSA regime or US/EU imperalism). It's just so convenient, especially when you compare the passivity/downplaying in threads like this one to other discussions on the same website where people are unironically arguing that your average Joe should risk jail and torture to stop their government from killing people in their wars of aggression. But us? No; I mean we aren't as bad as putin, and death yemenis will just understand that
- bayesian_horse 4y ago
  My terse one-liner was obviously not implying Saudi Arabia is a nation of saints or even better than Russia in any regard. One argument one can make is that the situation in Ukraine is worse from a European perspective because it is so much closer and the economic and political ties are much tighter. The Trump administration "fully supported" KSA, Biden does not btw.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    Yeah again sorry about my rant! Id say that me being a muslim from the MENA region is probably why I care as much, just like europeans care more about ukraine. The issue is when that (geographic?) biais is not acknowledged, so we get tons of downplaying or people arguing that it's actually just not as bad. Again, that's more of a observation on the thread in general ,not aimed at your comment in particular! Though I'd dispute your last point, Biden hasn't done anything against the KSA and the status quo just means a (+-) continuation of trump's policy. We will probably even see the Biden administration placating the saudis to keep gas prices in check, and hurt the russians. Which to me is absurd/Self defeating and would just signal that again, some lives are worth more than others.
    - bayesian_horse 4y ago
      Biden already called Saudi Arabia a pariah when he took office and he'll probably continue calling them out on quite a few things. But in general, there are bigger problems and there's not a lot to be improved just from rethoric.
- q1w2 4y ago
  The fact that your comment doesn't include the word Iran anywhere tells me something.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    What does it tell you? Obviously the houthis are supported by Iran, and I don't even have any particular love for the houthis themselves. But I don't blame them for getting Iranian support, just like I don't blame ukraine from getting foreign support. You take what you can get in those situations. Not that it matters but I'm sunni muslim, so my outlook is not even sectarian imo.

They aren't Putin.

What's going on in Yemen is pretty similar to what's going on in ukraine right now. And the KSA also has a putin-like tendency of sending death squads to murder international opposition. The only reason why they seem to not be as bad for westerners is because middle eastern lives are given almost 0 value here in the west. So you'll always get some hand wavy rationalisation to justify not doing anything about the KSA, because eh it's a complex situation! While at the same time claiming that the human cost of war is so atrocious and unexcusable that nothing is off the table, no punishment is severe enough, and everyone needs to do something... when it's russian aggression. When in reality both situations are just as bad and just as unexcusable. And man I know my comment has gone on a tangent, but the cognitive dissonance and the overt downplaying that comes with it just irks me. It's so blatant too: our side always deserves nuance, justification and contextualization ( whether it's us fully supporting the KSA regime or US/EU imperalism). It's just so convenient, especially when you compare the passivity/downplaying in threads like this one to other discussions on the same website where people are unironically arguing that your average Joe should risk jail and torture to stop their government from killing people in their wars of aggression. But us? No; I mean we aren't as bad as putin, and death yemenis will just understand that

bayesian_horse 4y ago
My terse one-liner was obviously not implying Saudi Arabia is a nation of saints or even better than Russia in any regard. One argument one can make is that the situation in Ukraine is worse from a European perspective because it is so much closer and the economic and political ties are much tighter. The Trump administration "fully supported" KSA, Biden does not btw.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  Yeah again sorry about my rant! Id say that me being a muslim from the MENA region is probably why I care as much, just like europeans care more about ukraine. The issue is when that (geographic?) biais is not acknowledged, so we get tons of downplaying or people arguing that it's actually just not as bad. Again, that's more of a observation on the thread in general ,not aimed at your comment in particular! Though I'd dispute your last point, Biden hasn't done anything against the KSA and the status quo just means a (+-) continuation of trump's policy. We will probably even see the Biden administration placating the saudis to keep gas prices in check, and hurt the russians. Which to me is absurd/Self defeating and would just signal that again, some lives are worth more than others.
  - bayesian_horse 4y ago
    Biden already called Saudi Arabia a pariah when he took office and he'll probably continue calling them out on quite a few things. But in general, there are bigger problems and there's not a lot to be improved just from rethoric.
q1w2 4y ago
The fact that your comment doesn't include the word Iran anywhere tells me something.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  What does it tell you? Obviously the houthis are supported by Iran, and I don't even have any particular love for the houthis themselves. But I don't blame them for getting Iranian support, just like I don't blame ukraine from getting foreign support. You take what you can get in those situations. Not that it matters but I'm sunni muslim, so my outlook is not even sectarian imo.