5 ms·

Not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but I did read (most) of TFA and was underwhelmed. That Saudi nationals were involved in the 9/11 attacks isn't news.

Not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but I did read (most) of TFA and was underwhelmed. That Saudi nationals were involved in the 9/11 attacks isn't news. That they had money and support (including from folks inside the US) isn't news. That multiple Federal and state law "enforcement" and intelligence agencies had information about the potential for these attacks isn't news. That those agencies didn't put all that information together and stop those attacks isn't news. That declassified documents confirm what we already knew and/or suspected is mildly interesting, but hardly news. I didn't get to the end of the article (after six or seven iterations of "so what?" I gave up), so I don't know if there was some sort of attempt to create a conspiracy theory or to bash the US government, both and/or other stuff. But almost 21 years on, I couldn't manage much more than a "meh" based on the information provided. I'm sure that all this documentation will be a wonderful trove for future historians, but I'm not sure what it adds at the moment. Edit: I initially erased ten years of history. Fixed now.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
0des 4y ago
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Where is yours?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- bandyaboot 4y ago
  You should take your own advice and look inward.
tomohawk 4y ago
For anyone interested, The Looming Tower provides excellent insight into the events leading up to 9/11. https://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/037541486X https://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/037...
- Cyph0n 4y ago
  I watched the show and thought it was pretty good. Not sure how faithful of an adaptation it is, though.
ShivShankaran 4y ago
>I don't know if there was some sort of attempt to create a conspiracy theory Saudi Arabia has threatened to abandon USD and use Yuan for oil and it looks like they are moving ahead. The last two people to threaten the PetroDollar were Saddam and Gaddafi.
- bayesian_horse 4y ago
  On the one hand you seem to think they are clever and cunning, on the other hand they think they can stage a mass casualty attack on US soil (for what reason exactly?) without the US ever finding out and retaliating. I think the fact that no US government retaliated against Saudi Arabia for 9/11 is quite a bit of evidence in favor of there being no covered-up evidence that the Saudi Arabian government intentionally supported or even condoned this attack. Their dealings with the US in the past few decades tell me they know better than to poke the bear.
  - TrispusAttucks 4y ago
    Alternatively, we sit on the intel until an opportune moment like Suadi Arabia suggesting a switch from USD.
    - bayesian_horse 4y ago
      The US government has an abysmal history of sitting on secrets. Also, for the sitting government, revealing that information would be more harmful and inconvenient than for the Saudis. What are they gonna do, sanction their oil exports?
hristov 4y ago
It is not officially known that the Saudi government provided support to the hijackers through Embassy officials and known agents. The currently accepted story is that the Saudi government has always tried to protect the US, has never been in cahoots with Osama bin Laden (at least after he became a terrorist) or Al Queda, and is just kind of unfortunate to have some crazies live on its soil. If this is true, it is actually a very big deal and would make a significant difference in Saudi US relations, in fact in the relations between Saudi Arabia and most free countries, and it would also allow for the victims of many terrorist attacks to actually sue the Saudi government.
- nl 4y ago
  It's not a smoking gun to say that some people at the Saudi embassy helped Saudi nationals settle in the US, even if 18 months later those Saudi nationals went on to commit terrorist acts. For example: > Bayoumi’s final call to al-Sudairy at the Saudi embassy came on February 7, 2000, after the hijackers were fully settled in the same apartment complex where Bayoumi lived. It'd be interesting to know how many other non-terrorist people went through a simialr process.
- bayesian_horse 4y ago
  As far as I understood it was that individuals paid or employed by the Saudi government supported the would-be attackers. That is a far cry from "The Saudi government provided support", especially if you imply that this support was intentional. Also as far as I understand it, in Saudi Arabia the public sector is rather large and so the chance that Saudi nationals are involved in the government in some way or other is quite high already.
- RC_ITR 4y ago
  I think the huge missing piece in all this is that bin Landen is an heir to what is still one of SA’s largest companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group Impossible to imply that had no hand in government officials’ willingness to help Osama (even if he was an “outcast”).
- mysockpuppet_07 4y ago
daniel-cussen 4y ago
This has already been ruled a conspiracy, the only theories are about who's in on it and who isn't. So I basically buy the South Park "9/11 Conspiracy conspiracy" where the government doesn't do very public attempts at discrediting its participation in these attacks because...like makes them look scary. Really it's the media not picking up that line. George Bush didn't even address it but denied it in the consequence of his words and deeds, and in his autobiography in fact, where he says his achievement as president first and foremost was protecting America from a second major terrorist attack in the third millennium. And USG deny it, they always denied it, they will always deny it, and good that they denied it because it is impossible to admit to it since it's not true. And there's like government spokespersons which are ignored by the bitchvictim media. And the government openly discrediting and investigating (which is tricky, casting blame around within the government between agencies, fucking bad minefield) and they talk about it on eg the websites of embassies, but it never gets picked up by CNN. Like they didn't have the Sherlock Holmes at the right place at the right time to stop these attacks. And in particular they have this immune response to hardcore conspiracy theorists, don't listen to them. Nobody sane sees bear markets coming. But the insane are accredited no worth in society. But like at all, societiy discards their worth early and forever. To me, a conspiracy theorist has worth if he is correct. Simple as that. Do you think there's a conspiracy? Better be right. Julius Caesar should have been a conpiracy theorist. Theories--meaning abductive logic--are the only way to piece together a conspiracy in the moment. And that's why it's so frowned upon by the bitchvictim media, because it works against them. In fact the biggest obstacle to an intercessor on a plane would be the other passengers interceding on behalf of Muhammed Ata, to basically protect the stewardess from his boxcutter from Muhammed Ata from the intercessor. Like the terrorist isn't crazy, he's just a terrorist, you're crazy because you're protecting us from annihilation. Apart from that, apart from the other passengers insisting I accept a stewardess taken hostage, I could have totally stopped one of the two plane strikes had I been a passenger. Would have been called South Tower Attack. So in fact I was converted into a conspiracy theorist by schoolmates, before the teacher arrived, everything was fine, a pat on the back then everybody started kicking me, and I couldn't figure out why, until a girl told me why. And I couldn't figure it out on my own, couldn't come up with conspiracy theories fast enough, because I wasn't a conspiracy theorist. And in fact the only way to figure out you have a "kick me" on your back is knowing about that specific abuse or coming up with the theory, simulating it, and comparing it to reality. Or being told by someone in the conspiracy. That happened a lot. So that "kick me" which the whole class saw, publicly displayed, was a confession of conspiracy. They told me when they conspired against me after conspiring, like half the time. Over time it seems like it wasn't half, less than that, less and less. Can you argue with that? "Kick me"?
turdit 4y ago
thank you

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

0des 4y ago

michaelmrose 4y ago
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Where is yours?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
bandyaboot 4y ago
You should take your own advice and look inward.

tomohawk 4y ago

For anyone interested, The Looming Tower provides excellent insight into the events leading up to 9/11. https://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/037541486X https://www.amazon.com/Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road-11/dp/037...

Cyph0n 4y ago
I watched the show and thought it was pretty good. Not sure how faithful of an adaptation it is, though.

ShivShankaran 4y ago

>I don't know if there was some sort of attempt to create a conspiracy theory Saudi Arabia has threatened to abandon USD and use Yuan for oil and it looks like they are moving ahead. The last two people to threaten the PetroDollar were Saddam and Gaddafi.

bayesian_horse 4y ago
On the one hand you seem to think they are clever and cunning, on the other hand they think they can stage a mass casualty attack on US soil (for what reason exactly?) without the US ever finding out and retaliating. I think the fact that no US government retaliated against Saudi Arabia for 9/11 is quite a bit of evidence in favor of there being no covered-up evidence that the Saudi Arabian government intentionally supported or even condoned this attack. Their dealings with the US in the past few decades tell me they know better than to poke the bear.
- TrispusAttucks 4y ago
  Alternatively, we sit on the intel until an opportune moment like Suadi Arabia suggesting a switch from USD.
  - bayesian_horse 4y ago
    The US government has an abysmal history of sitting on secrets. Also, for the sitting government, revealing that information would be more harmful and inconvenient than for the Saudis. What are they gonna do, sanction their oil exports?

hristov 4y ago

It is not officially known that the Saudi government provided support to the hijackers through Embassy officials and known agents. The currently accepted story is that the Saudi government has always tried to protect the US, has never been in cahoots with Osama bin Laden (at least after he became a terrorist) or Al Queda, and is just kind of unfortunate to have some crazies live on its soil. If this is true, it is actually a very big deal and would make a significant difference in Saudi US relations, in fact in the relations between Saudi Arabia and most free countries, and it would also allow for the victims of many terrorist attacks to actually sue the Saudi government.

nl 4y ago
It's not a smoking gun to say that some people at the Saudi embassy helped Saudi nationals settle in the US, even if 18 months later those Saudi nationals went on to commit terrorist acts. For example: > Bayoumi’s final call to al-Sudairy at the Saudi embassy came on February 7, 2000, after the hijackers were fully settled in the same apartment complex where Bayoumi lived. It'd be interesting to know how many other non-terrorist people went through a simialr process.
bayesian_horse 4y ago
As far as I understood it was that individuals paid or employed by the Saudi government supported the would-be attackers. That is a far cry from "The Saudi government provided support", especially if you imply that this support was intentional. Also as far as I understand it, in Saudi Arabia the public sector is rather large and so the chance that Saudi nationals are involved in the government in some way or other is quite high already.
RC_ITR 4y ago
I think the huge missing piece in all this is that bin Landen is an heir to what is still one of SA’s largest companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group Impossible to imply that had no hand in government officials’ willingness to help Osama (even if he was an “outcast”).
mysockpuppet_07 4y ago

daniel-cussen 4y ago

This has already been ruled a conspiracy, the only theories are about who's in on it and who isn't. So I basically buy the South Park "9/11 Conspiracy conspiracy" where the government doesn't do very public attempts at discrediting its participation in these attacks because...like makes them look scary. Really it's the media not picking up that line. George Bush didn't even address it but denied it in the consequence of his words and deeds, and in his autobiography in fact, where he says his achievement as president first and foremost was protecting America from a second major terrorist attack in the third millennium. And USG deny it, they always denied it, they will always deny it, and good that they denied it because it is impossible to admit to it since it's not true. And there's like government spokespersons which are ignored by the bitchvictim media. And the government openly discrediting and investigating (which is tricky, casting blame around within the government between agencies, fucking bad minefield) and they talk about it on eg the websites of embassies, but it never gets picked up by CNN. Like they didn't have the Sherlock Holmes at the right place at the right time to stop these attacks. And in particular they have this immune response to hardcore conspiracy theorists, don't listen to them. Nobody sane sees bear markets coming. But the insane are accredited no worth in society. But like at all, societiy discards their worth early and forever. To me, a conspiracy theorist has worth if he is correct. Simple as that. Do you think there's a conspiracy? Better be right. Julius Caesar should have been a conpiracy theorist. Theories--meaning abductive logic--are the only way to piece together a conspiracy in the moment. And that's why it's so frowned upon by the bitchvictim media, because it works against them. In fact the biggest obstacle to an intercessor on a plane would be the other passengers interceding on behalf of Muhammed Ata, to basically protect the stewardess from his boxcutter from Muhammed Ata from the intercessor. Like the terrorist isn't crazy, he's just a terrorist, you're crazy because you're protecting us from annihilation. Apart from that, apart from the other passengers insisting I accept a stewardess taken hostage, I could have totally stopped one of the two plane strikes had I been a passenger. Would have been called South Tower Attack. So in fact I was converted into a conspiracy theorist by schoolmates, before the teacher arrived, everything was fine, a pat on the back then everybody started kicking me, and I couldn't figure out why, until a girl told me why. And I couldn't figure it out on my own, couldn't come up with conspiracy theories fast enough, because I wasn't a conspiracy theorist. And in fact the only way to figure out you have a "kick me" on your back is knowing about that specific abuse or coming up with the theory, simulating it, and comparing it to reality. Or being told by someone in the conspiracy. That happened a lot. So that "kick me" which the whole class saw, publicly displayed, was a confession of conspiracy. They told me when they conspired against me after conspiring, like half the time. Over time it seems like it wasn't half, less than that, less and less. Can you argue with that? "Kick me"?

turdit 4y ago

thank you