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I know that the "spacex package tesla roadster 2.0" is a running Elon hype joke, but the discussed thrusters would be revolutionary in extreme car design. Fan c

I know that the "spacex package tesla roadster 2.0" is a running Elon hype joke, but the discussed thrusters would be revolutionary in extreme car design. Fan cars can only suck downward, but thrust vectoring would be a whole different ballgame: it can push down, directly thrust, push counter to the g force in a tight curve, brake faster. Thrust vectoring could serve as a safety system to dynamically produce downforce in case a high speed car starts to go airborne, can counter spin-outs, etc.

adolph 4y ago
While not full thrust vectoring, more like unthrust vectoring, McLaren did this: One further famous example was the so-called “fiddle brake”, given its name much later by Ferrari technical boss Ross Brawn, but known within the team as “brake-steer,” that McLaren ran in the latter half of 1997 and into 1998. This simple concept allowed the rear brakes to operate on either the left or right side only, providing a clear benefit under acceleration in corners – and an instant lap time advantage. https://www.mclaren.com/racing/inside-the-mtc/mclaren-extra-pedal-3153421/ https://www.mclaren.com/racing/inside-the-mtc/mclaren-extra-...
- metadat 4y ago
  iirc, F1 cars today all use brake steering.
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    As do road cars with stability control.
    - _carbyau_ 4y ago
      Along similar lines, there exists the e-diff. Basically a standard diff using brakes to shape power output. Basically a brake limited version of a limited slip diff.
  - mhio 4y ago
    Brake steering by applying different pressure left/right is not allowed. 11.1 Brake circuits and pressure distribution 11.1.1 ... all cars must be equipped with only one brake system. This system must comprise solely of two separate hydraulic circuits operated by one pedal, one circuit operating on the two front wheels and the other on the two rear wheels. ... 11.1.2 The brake system must be designed so that within each circuit, the forces applied to the brake pads are the same magnitude and act as opposing pairs on a given brake disc. https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2022_formula_1_technical_regulations_-_iss_1_-_2020-03-30.pdf https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2022_formula_1_techn...
modeless 4y ago
> Fan cars can only suck downward This doesn't really seem like that big of a disadvantage to me. You can just keep increasing downforce until the tires are able to give you the traction you need for any maneuver. It seems like that should scale as far as you need it to, and be way more efficient than rockets. I guess the limits would be in the tires and suspension.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  Increasing downward force on a pneumatic car tire without increasing tire pressure causes the tire's contact patch to deform, and you lose grip. This can happen in driving due to weight transfer. You would need something other than pneumatic tires, or some sort of dynamic tire pressure system.
  - modeless 4y ago
    Either one seems more practical than rockets on a car. And modifying pneumatic tires to minimize this problem might be possible, if it's something that just hasn't been prioritized because it wasn't that big of a problem before. Also, a sophisticated fan system might be able to make the downforce larger, yet less variable than natural downforce.
  - moralestapia 4y ago
    You actually increase grip but lose traction overall.

adolph 4y ago

While not full thrust vectoring, more like unthrust vectoring, McLaren did this: One further famous example was the so-called “fiddle brake”, given its name much later by Ferrari technical boss Ross Brawn, but known within the team as “brake-steer,” that McLaren ran in the latter half of 1997 and into 1998. This simple concept allowed the rear brakes to operate on either the left or right side only, providing a clear benefit under acceleration in corners – and an instant lap time advantage. https://www.mclaren.com/racing/inside-the-mtc/mclaren-extra-pedal-3153421/ https://www.mclaren.com/racing/inside-the-mtc/mclaren-extra-...

metadat 4y ago
iirc, F1 cars today all use brake steering.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  As do road cars with stability control.
  - _carbyau_ 4y ago
    Along similar lines, there exists the e-diff. Basically a standard diff using brakes to shape power output. Basically a brake limited version of a limited slip diff.
- mhio 4y ago
  Brake steering by applying different pressure left/right is not allowed. 11.1 Brake circuits and pressure distribution 11.1.1 ... all cars must be equipped with only one brake system. This system must comprise solely of two separate hydraulic circuits operated by one pedal, one circuit operating on the two front wheels and the other on the two rear wheels. ... 11.1.2 The brake system must be designed so that within each circuit, the forces applied to the brake pads are the same magnitude and act as opposing pairs on a given brake disc. https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2022_formula_1_technical_regulations_-_iss_1_-_2020-03-30.pdf https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2022_formula_1_techn...

modeless 4y ago

> Fan cars can only suck downward This doesn't really seem like that big of a disadvantage to me. You can just keep increasing downforce until the tires are able to give you the traction you need for any maneuver. It seems like that should scale as far as you need it to, and be way more efficient than rockets. I guess the limits would be in the tires and suspension.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
Increasing downward force on a pneumatic car tire without increasing tire pressure causes the tire's contact patch to deform, and you lose grip. This can happen in driving due to weight transfer. You would need something other than pneumatic tires, or some sort of dynamic tire pressure system.
- modeless 4y ago
  Either one seems more practical than rockets on a car. And modifying pneumatic tires to minimize this problem might be possible, if it's something that just hasn't been prioritized because it wasn't that big of a problem before. Also, a sophisticated fan system might be able to make the downforce larger, yet less variable than natural downforce.
- moralestapia 4y ago
  You actually increase grip but lose traction overall.