3 ms·

Consider that you end up in a legal dispute with another company, and they can legally discover mountains of your recorded conversations which they can then tra

by enneff 4y ago

Consider that you end up in a legal dispute with another company, and they can legally discover mountains of your recorded conversations which they can then trawl through to cherry-pick sound bites that support their case, while they themselves have been careful to discuss most things off the record. In that scenario you would be at a huge disadvantage regardless of the ethics and legality of your conversations.

WalterBright 4y ago
That's why when you're arrested the advice is to not talk to the police without a lawyer. That's because the police can take what you say out of context and hang you with it.
willcipriano 4y ago
I can't think of a single thing that I've ever said at work (since leaving the restaurant industry, that was a different sort of scene) that even taken in the most uncharitable way, could be edited or taken out of context in such a manner that would make me legally responsible for anything, or even be embarrassing. I discuss work at work. I have no reports. I don't hire anyone. I'm a happily married man so I don't engage in flirting or anything that even appears not to be above board. I don't drink or go to holiday parties. I live my life in public like someone is always recording, because even if they aren't they can just say "Will said...." and likely be believed anyway.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  You've probably never had a fatal disease before, either :-)
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    I'm very curious what sort of things people are saying in the workplace that they are afraid of coming out. I've found workplace conversation to be so sterile and bland that I can't even really conceive of what that would look like beyond the insane examples you see in HR videos. That sort of stuff happens in working class jobs, but I've never seen it in a office.
    - nobody9999 4y ago
      >I'm very curious what sort of things people are saying in the workplace that they are afraid of coming out. I can't (and would never attempt to) speak for anyone else, but the content of the conversation is irrelevant. I'm perfectly happy to stand behind everything I say (e.g., I didn't post stuff I knew would be poorly received with a throwaway account in this very thread and have been severely downvoted for it. N.B.: Not complaining about the downvotes, I knew they were coming and stand by my posts). My issue is with surreptitious recording. Not because of what I say, but because it's wrong to record someone without their knowledge or consent -- regardlesss of the content. Edit: Corrected myself. Meant to say "I can't (and would never attempt to) speak for anyone else," rather than "I can't (and would attempt to) speak for anyone else,"
    - Thorrez 4y ago
      One of your coworkers might propose some sort of anticompetitive behavior against a competitor, but your employer might never actually do it. Then the competitor might sue your employer, and in the discovery, the recording of your coworker proposing the behavior could be used against your employer.
- nobody9999 4y ago
  Cardinal Richelieu[0] would like a word (well, a paragraph or two) with you. A more recent treatment (albeit a fictional one) of that idea can be found here[1] [0] https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/cardinal_richelieu_183310 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/cardinal_richelieu_183310 [1] https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/The_Illusion_of_Truth https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/The_Illusion_of_Truth
  - Retric 4y ago
    Often quoted, rarely supported by actual evidence.
    - nobody9999 4y ago
      >Often quoted, rarely supported by actual evidence. A fair point. That said, why don't we do a little field research and record everything you say for a few months and see if we can generate some evidence one way or another? What's that? You don't consent to such recording? Why not? Yes. There is a little snark there, but that's kind of the point. It's not about what you say, but whether or not it's ethical to record someone without their knowledge or consent.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- enneff 4y ago
  The concern I’m raising is that a litigious party can take your words out of context to make a case against your employer. It behooves you not to produce lots of recorded material that can make life for you and your colleagues difficult in such a situation. It has nothing to do with how virtuous you are. Btw just because you can’t imagine how your words may be taken out of context doesn’t mean a motivated attorney also lacks such imagination. ;)

by enneff 4y ago

WalterBright 4y ago

That's why when you're arrested the advice is to not talk to the police without a lawyer. That's because the police can take what you say out of context and hang you with it.

willcipriano 4y ago

I can't think of a single thing that I've ever said at work (since leaving the restaurant industry, that was a different sort of scene) that even taken in the most uncharitable way, could be edited or taken out of context in such a manner that would make me legally responsible for anything, or even be embarrassing. I discuss work at work. I have no reports. I don't hire anyone. I'm a happily married man so I don't engage in flirting or anything that even appears not to be above board. I don't drink or go to holiday parties. I live my life in public like someone is always recording, because even if they aren't they can just say "Will said...." and likely be believed anyway.

WalterBright 4y ago
You've probably never had a fatal disease before, either :-)
- willcipriano 4y ago
  I'm very curious what sort of things people are saying in the workplace that they are afraid of coming out. I've found workplace conversation to be so sterile and bland that I can't even really conceive of what that would look like beyond the insane examples you see in HR videos. That sort of stuff happens in working class jobs, but I've never seen it in a office.
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    >I'm very curious what sort of things people are saying in the workplace that they are afraid of coming out. I can't (and would never attempt to) speak for anyone else, but the content of the conversation is irrelevant. I'm perfectly happy to stand behind everything I say (e.g., I didn't post stuff I knew would be poorly received with a throwaway account in this very thread and have been severely downvoted for it. N.B.: Not complaining about the downvotes, I knew they were coming and stand by my posts). My issue is with surreptitious recording. Not because of what I say, but because it's wrong to record someone without their knowledge or consent -- regardlesss of the content. Edit: Corrected myself. Meant to say "I can't (and would never attempt to) speak for anyone else," rather than "I can't (and would attempt to) speak for anyone else,"
  - Thorrez 4y ago
    One of your coworkers might propose some sort of anticompetitive behavior against a competitor, but your employer might never actually do it. Then the competitor might sue your employer, and in the discovery, the recording of your coworker proposing the behavior could be used against your employer.
nobody9999 4y ago
Cardinal Richelieu[0] would like a word (well, a paragraph or two) with you. A more recent treatment (albeit a fictional one) of that idea can be found here[1] [0] https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/cardinal_richelieu_183310 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/cardinal_richelieu_183310 [1] https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/The_Illusion_of_Truth https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/The_Illusion_of_Truth
- Retric 4y ago
  Often quoted, rarely supported by actual evidence.
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    >Often quoted, rarely supported by actual evidence. A fair point. That said, why don't we do a little field research and record everything you say for a few months and see if we can generate some evidence one way or another? What's that? You don't consent to such recording? Why not? Yes. There is a little snark there, but that's kind of the point. It's not about what you say, but whether or not it's ethical to record someone without their knowledge or consent.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
enneff 4y ago
The concern I’m raising is that a litigious party can take your words out of context to make a case against your employer. It behooves you not to produce lots of recorded material that can make life for you and your colleagues difficult in such a situation. It has nothing to do with how virtuous you are. Btw just because you can’t imagine how your words may be taken out of context doesn’t mean a motivated attorney also lacks such imagination. ;)