4 ms·

>If you aren't going to offer the recordings to the public in any way I can't see how you would even be caught. I'd appreciate it if you'd clarify this point.

>If you aren't going to offer the recordings to the public in any way I can't see how you would even be caught. I'd appreciate it if you'd clarify this point. Are you implying (not saying you are, but it is a parsimonious reading of your assertion) that not getting caught doing something makes that activity legal/ethical? Personally, I'm more concerned with the ethical implications rather than the legal ones, as many things that are legal are highly unethical.

willcipriano 4y ago
I assume that I will be held to account for anything I say in the workplace. The pushback I get for that idea makes me wonder what the rest of you are saying behind closed doors, probably not things that are very ethical/legal.
- enneff 4y ago
  Consider that you end up in a legal dispute with another company, and they can legally discover mountains of your recorded conversations which they can then trawl through to cherry-pick sound bites that support their case, while they themselves have been careful to discuss most things off the record. In that scenario you would be at a huge disadvantage regardless of the ethics and legality of your conversations.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    That's why when you're arrested the advice is to not talk to the police without a lawyer. That's because the police can take what you say out of context and hang you with it.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    I can't think of a single thing that I've ever said at work (since leaving the restaurant industry, that was a different sort of scene) that even taken in the most uncharitable way, could be edited or taken out of context in such a manner that would make me legally responsible for anything, or even be embarrassing. I discuss work at work. I have no reports. I don't hire anyone. I'm a happily married man so I don't engage in flirting or anything that even appears not to be above board. I don't drink or go to holiday parties. I live my life in public like someone is always recording, because even if they aren't they can just say "Will said...." and likely be believed anyway.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      You've probably never had a fatal disease before, either :-)
      - willcipriano 4y ago
        I'm very curious what sort of things people are saying in the workplace that they are afraid of coming out. I've found workplace conversation to be so sterile and bland that I can't even really conceive of what that would look like beyond the insane examples you see in HR videos. That sort of stuff happens in working class jobs, but I've never seen it in a office.
        nobody9999 4y ago
        >I'm very curious what sort of things people are saying in the workplace that they are afraid of coming out. I can't (and would never attempt to) speak for anyone else, but the content of the conversation is irrelevant. I'm perfectly happy to stand behind everything I say (e.g., I didn't post stuff I knew would be poorly received with a throwaway account in this very thread and have been severely downvoted for it. N.B.: Not complaining about the downvotes, I knew they were coming and stand by my posts). My issue is with surreptitious recording. Not because of what I say, but because it's wrong to record someone without their knowledge or consent -- regardlesss of the content. Edit: Corrected myself. Meant to say "I can't (and would never attempt to) speak for anyone else," rather than "I can't (and would attempt to) speak for anyone else,"
        Thorrez 4y ago
        One of your coworkers might propose some sort of anticompetitive behavior against a competitor, but your employer might never actually do it. Then the competitor might sue your employer, and in the discovery, the recording of your coworker proposing the behavior could be used against your employer.
    - nobody9999 4y ago
      Cardinal Richelieu[0] would like a word (well, a paragraph or two) with you. A more recent treatment (albeit a fictional one) of that idea can be found here[1] [0] https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/cardinal_richelieu_183310 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/cardinal_richelieu_183310 [1] https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/The_Illusion_of_Truth https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/The_Illusion_of_Truth
- nobody9999 4y ago
  >I assume that I will be held to account for anything I say in the workplace. That's a reasonable assumption. Although I'd point out that while OP did mention some work-related stuff, they implied that they also record not work-related stuff. My issue isn't with recording. It's with surreptitious recording -- whether in a workplace or otherwise.
- nobody9999 4y ago
  That's as may be, but it's orthoganal to the question I asked: Are you implying (not saying you are, but it is a parsimonious reading of your assertion) that not getting caught doing something makes that activity legal/ethical? So. do you believe that as long as you don't get caught, it's ethical?
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    My ethics have little to do with the law and more closely resembles Nicomachean Ethics[0]. I care more about the correct result as opposed to a correct process. A thought experiment: Someone is going to admit to you that they are actively molesting a child. It's illegal to record this conversation, and this person trusts you and considers you a friend, but if you did record it would provide evidence that would prevent the molestation of children in the future. In my view not breaking the law in that case is unethical. [0] "Aristotle emphasized that virtue is practical, and that the purpose of ethics is to become good, not merely to know. Aristotle also claims that the right course of action depends upon the details of a particular situation, rather than being generated merely by applying a law." - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotelian_ethics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotelian_ethics
    - nobody9999 4y ago
      I am familiar with the concepts. But you've focused on a severe edge case, rather than the discussion at hand. Moving the goalposts can be fun, I guess. Please do continue, as it's mildly amusing.
      - willcipriano 4y ago
        You wouldn't know if someone recorded you saying something mundane, they would have no incentive to release it, if released nobody would listen. It would only really matter if you appeared to do something wrong or actually did something wrong. All of the things that I can think of, that anyone would care about, are worse than not obeying a particular state law about recording devices.
  - 4y ago

willcipriano 4y ago

I assume that I will be held to account for anything I say in the workplace. The pushback I get for that idea makes me wonder what the rest of you are saying behind closed doors, probably not things that are very ethical/legal.

enneff 4y ago
Consider that you end up in a legal dispute with another company, and they can legally discover mountains of your recorded conversations which they can then trawl through to cherry-pick sound bites that support their case, while they themselves have been careful to discuss most things off the record. In that scenario you would be at a huge disadvantage regardless of the ethics and legality of your conversations.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  That's why when you're arrested the advice is to not talk to the police without a lawyer. That's because the police can take what you say out of context and hang you with it.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  I can't think of a single thing that I've ever said at work (since leaving the restaurant industry, that was a different sort of scene) that even taken in the most uncharitable way, could be edited or taken out of context in such a manner that would make me legally responsible for anything, or even be embarrassing. I discuss work at work. I have no reports. I don't hire anyone. I'm a happily married man so I don't engage in flirting or anything that even appears not to be above board. I don't drink or go to holiday parties. I live my life in public like someone is always recording, because even if they aren't they can just say "Will said...." and likely be believed anyway.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    You've probably never had a fatal disease before, either :-)
    - willcipriano 4y ago
      I'm very curious what sort of things people are saying in the workplace that they are afraid of coming out. I've found workplace conversation to be so sterile and bland that I can't even really conceive of what that would look like beyond the insane examples you see in HR videos. That sort of stuff happens in working class jobs, but I've never seen it in a office.
      - nobody9999 4y ago
        >I'm very curious what sort of things people are saying in the workplace that they are afraid of coming out. I can't (and would never attempt to) speak for anyone else, but the content of the conversation is irrelevant. I'm perfectly happy to stand behind everything I say (e.g., I didn't post stuff I knew would be poorly received with a throwaway account in this very thread and have been severely downvoted for it. N.B.: Not complaining about the downvotes, I knew they were coming and stand by my posts). My issue is with surreptitious recording. Not because of what I say, but because it's wrong to record someone without their knowledge or consent -- regardlesss of the content. Edit: Corrected myself. Meant to say "I can't (and would never attempt to) speak for anyone else," rather than "I can't (and would attempt to) speak for anyone else,"
      - Thorrez 4y ago
        One of your coworkers might propose some sort of anticompetitive behavior against a competitor, but your employer might never actually do it. Then the competitor might sue your employer, and in the discovery, the recording of your coworker proposing the behavior could be used against your employer.
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    Cardinal Richelieu[0] would like a word (well, a paragraph or two) with you. A more recent treatment (albeit a fictional one) of that idea can be found here[1] [0] https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/cardinal_richelieu_183310 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/cardinal_richelieu_183310 [1] https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/The_Illusion_of_Truth https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/The_Illusion_of_Truth
nobody9999 4y ago
>I assume that I will be held to account for anything I say in the workplace. That's a reasonable assumption. Although I'd point out that while OP did mention some work-related stuff, they implied that they also record not work-related stuff. My issue isn't with recording. It's with surreptitious recording -- whether in a workplace or otherwise.
nobody9999 4y ago
That's as may be, but it's orthoganal to the question I asked: Are you implying (not saying you are, but it is a parsimonious reading of your assertion) that not getting caught doing something makes that activity legal/ethical? So. do you believe that as long as you don't get caught, it's ethical?
- willcipriano 4y ago
  My ethics have little to do with the law and more closely resembles Nicomachean Ethics[0]. I care more about the correct result as opposed to a correct process. A thought experiment: Someone is going to admit to you that they are actively molesting a child. It's illegal to record this conversation, and this person trusts you and considers you a friend, but if you did record it would provide evidence that would prevent the molestation of children in the future. In my view not breaking the law in that case is unethical. [0] "Aristotle emphasized that virtue is practical, and that the purpose of ethics is to become good, not merely to know. Aristotle also claims that the right course of action depends upon the details of a particular situation, rather than being generated merely by applying a law." - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotelian_ethics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotelian_ethics
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    I am familiar with the concepts. But you've focused on a severe edge case, rather than the discussion at hand. Moving the goalposts can be fun, I guess. Please do continue, as it's mildly amusing.
    - willcipriano 4y ago
      You wouldn't know if someone recorded you saying something mundane, they would have no incentive to release it, if released nobody would listen. It would only really matter if you appeared to do something wrong or actually did something wrong. All of the things that I can think of, that anyone would care about, are worse than not obeying a particular state law about recording devices.
- 4y ago