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People generally call out NIMBY-ism as though it's just some sort of irrational bias that people have, but I don't think that always explains it. Sure, in a lo

People generally call out NIMBY-ism as though it's just some sort of irrational bias that people have, but I don't think that always explains it. Sure, in a lot of cases, people are overprotective of their neighborhoods or communities. But where did that attitude come from? I'd argue it came from decades of corporate greed and government dysfunction that bred a general distrust of large institutions. It's not like people have no reason to feel like big business doesn't have their best interests in mind. Another commenter gave the construction of highways as an example, saying that people used to look at large infrastructure projects like that with a positive attitude. Well, I'd say look where that got them. The way highways were built in this country completely wrecked communities (especially poor ones located in less desirable parts of town) and eventually led to the uniquely American aesthetic of the urban and suburban wasteland. If large organizations in this country want to undertake large projects, they have to first work to regain the trust of the average person by acting like they actually give a damn and really want to the world to be a better place for their efforts.

carapace 4y ago
In SF people could read up on the history of the Embarcadero Freeway. It took a half a century and the Loma Prieta earthquake to work through all that. https://medium.com/@UpOutSF/old-san-francisco-a-look-at-before-and-after-the-embarcadero-free-came-down-85739ff61dc1 https://medium.com/@UpOutSF/old-san-francisco-a-look-at-befo... https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/visuals/san-franciso-tore-down-embarcadero-freeway/ https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/visuals/san-franci...
MrMan 4y ago
we need planning, not just building
- pitaj 4y ago
  Planning (specifically urban planning around cars over the last century) is a giant failure. Hopefully you can understand why people like myself would be skeptical.
- seoaeu 4y ago
  The interesting thing about planning is that NIMBYs will insist that a years long planning process is required, right up until the point one is completed saying how a bunch more housing can be added. Then all of a sudden they insist that the plan was flawed and the whole process needs to go back to the drawing board
- Pxtl 4y ago
  Tried that. Didn't work. We need building. We've done enough planning for 10 lifetimes, and all it got us was a crushing housing crisis.
- mempko 4y ago
  Exactly! We have a small amount of carbon budget left before we exceed 2C. Using it needs planning. If anything, global warming is a sign that we have basically failed at planning as a species. We glorify our past ability to build but we fail to see that we have overbuilt to the detriment of our future.
- epistasis 4y ago
  Planning is pretty much one of the worst failures of the past century. It's hard to think of a single place where planning has created an amazing city. Maybe, Vancouver, maybe, but that's mostly a success because it enables a small number of towers in the downtown core. Despite the huge amount of construction over the past century, the best parts were made when there was the least of contemporary planning methods. I think a lot of it comes down to the planning for required cars. But the entire field is a complete failure, once you look into how it practices itself in the US. And if you talk to planners and call them out of the failure of the field as a whole, and for the particular projects they are in, they will say "it's not up to us it's up to the politicians." Which is rather revealing. "Planning" isn't planning but instead a thin veneer over politicians following the whims of NIMBYs. We'd be better off without the entire field. Let's start from scratch.
caracustard 4y ago
"...people are overprotective of their neighborhoods or communities." Me: huh, people seem to finally get why NIMBY is a thing! "...it came from decades of corporate greed and government dysfunction..." Me: nevermind... NIMBY is simply people wanting the things to be as they always were. That's about it. Say you lived in the area for 10 years, you've made friends there, you're used to things. Suddenly someone comes by and says that it's time to build something that you don't really care about. What would your reaction be other than NIMBY? You like everything as it already is, there is no need to change anything, now let me watch my game in peace and then i'll go fishing. "... look where that got them. " A system that allowed for easier travel, transportation of goods, a system that created a brand new (for the time) travel culture? I can go on and on, but mind you that railways weren't exactly the most community-friendly (whatever it means) thing either. "...urban and suburban wasteland." Lesson learned: don't build roads or connect states of a huge country, allowing people to travel wherever they want in the comfort of their vehicle, otherwise in the future you'd be ostracized for the actions of those who came long after you and decided not to innovate in the infrastructure industry.

carapace 4y ago

In SF people could read up on the history of the Embarcadero Freeway. It took a half a century and the Loma Prieta earthquake to work through all that. https://medium.com/@UpOutSF/old-san-francisco-a-look-at-before-and-after-the-embarcadero-free-came-down-85739ff61dc1 https://medium.com/@UpOutSF/old-san-francisco-a-look-at-befo... https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/visuals/san-franciso-tore-down-embarcadero-freeway/ https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/visuals/san-franci...

MrMan 4y ago

we need planning, not just building

pitaj 4y ago
Planning (specifically urban planning around cars over the last century) is a giant failure. Hopefully you can understand why people like myself would be skeptical.
seoaeu 4y ago
The interesting thing about planning is that NIMBYs will insist that a years long planning process is required, right up until the point one is completed saying how a bunch more housing can be added. Then all of a sudden they insist that the plan was flawed and the whole process needs to go back to the drawing board
Pxtl 4y ago
Tried that. Didn't work. We need building. We've done enough planning for 10 lifetimes, and all it got us was a crushing housing crisis.
mempko 4y ago
Exactly! We have a small amount of carbon budget left before we exceed 2C. Using it needs planning. If anything, global warming is a sign that we have basically failed at planning as a species. We glorify our past ability to build but we fail to see that we have overbuilt to the detriment of our future.
epistasis 4y ago
Planning is pretty much one of the worst failures of the past century. It's hard to think of a single place where planning has created an amazing city. Maybe, Vancouver, maybe, but that's mostly a success because it enables a small number of towers in the downtown core. Despite the huge amount of construction over the past century, the best parts were made when there was the least of contemporary planning methods. I think a lot of it comes down to the planning for required cars. But the entire field is a complete failure, once you look into how it practices itself in the US. And if you talk to planners and call them out of the failure of the field as a whole, and for the particular projects they are in, they will say "it's not up to us it's up to the politicians." Which is rather revealing. "Planning" isn't planning but instead a thin veneer over politicians following the whims of NIMBYs. We'd be better off without the entire field. Let's start from scratch.

caracustard 4y ago

"...people are overprotective of their neighborhoods or communities." Me: huh, people seem to finally get why NIMBY is a thing! "...it came from decades of corporate greed and government dysfunction..." Me: nevermind... NIMBY is simply people wanting the things to be as they always were. That's about it. Say you lived in the area for 10 years, you've made friends there, you're used to things. Suddenly someone comes by and says that it's time to build something that you don't really care about. What would your reaction be other than NIMBY? You like everything as it already is, there is no need to change anything, now let me watch my game in peace and then i'll go fishing. "... look where that got them. " A system that allowed for easier travel, transportation of goods, a system that created a brand new (for the time) travel culture? I can go on and on, but mind you that railways weren't exactly the most community-friendly (whatever it means) thing either. "...urban and suburban wasteland." Lesson learned: don't build roads or connect states of a huge country, allowing people to travel wherever they want in the comfort of their vehicle, otherwise in the future you'd be ostracized for the actions of those who came long after you and decided not to innovate in the infrastructure industry.