3 ms·

I respectfully disagree. This is what an investment from Visa looks like with really good design. Not everyone was trying to get both sides to adopt new hardwar

I respectfully disagree. This is what an investment from Visa looks like with really good design. Not everyone was trying to get both sides to adopt new hardware, either. As long as Square uses cards for funding, it will be robbing the poor to pay the rich just like every other card company. To me, "disruptive" in the payments world means no cards, period.

dpark 15y ago
And why exactly do you imagine that Square couldn't debit directly from a checking account in the future (as the article mentioned)?
- thinkcomp 15y ago
  Because they don't have any money transmitter licenses and it will take them a few years to get them.
  - dpark 15y ago
    Hence the phrase "in the future". There's no way that Square doesn't see this obvious step. It's probably already in progress. Also I'm guessing that what Square currently does already requires a money transmitter license, since transmitting money is exactly what they do.
    - thinkcomp 15y ago
      Square does not currently require a license, and they have not yet applied for one in California.
      - dpark 15y ago
        Out of curiosity, where are you getting this info? From a cursory look, I was under the impression that they would need a license in every state that they'd do business in.
        thinkcomp 15y ago
        It's all public information. Square is exempt from the California Money Transmission Act per FC § 1805(d) (see http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fin&group=01001-02000&file=1805-1806 http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fin&#3...), since it's actually JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. that is moving your money. Square does not have a license. http://www.dfi.ca.gov/directory/mt.asp http://www.dfi.ca.gov/directory/mt.asp And Square has no plans to get one as of last month. http://www.dfi.ca.gov/publications/summaries/2011/september.pdf http://www.dfi.ca.gov/publications/summaries/2011/september....
        dpark 15y ago
        Thanks! Would it not be possible for them to partner in the same fashion to do direct debit?
  - mbreese 15y ago
    You're seriously still beating this horse? Why couldn't they partner with another institution that already has the appropriate licensing? Or, alternatively, they seem well enough funded to be able to post the appropriate bonds. I get your position, but with the constant whining, you're not winning over people.
    - thinkcomp 15y ago
      First, I'm not trying to win you over. I'm trying to get a license, as is my right. Second, a lot of people consider the particular fight I've chosen to pick fairly important, as it would do a lot to corrode the monopoly that banks hold on payment processing. So one person's whining is apparently another's heroic battle (not my words). Third, the issue of money transmission licenses is also directly relevant to this particular topic.
      - mbreese 15y ago
        I get it, I really do. I also think that freeing up the financial industry is needed. I'm not convinced that your way is the right one, but I'm not opposed. But I'm worried that you are starting to get into RMS territory... that most of what I read from you here is on this one issue, from a very distinct viewpoint. I'm not saying you're wrong (or that RMS is), just that such a myopic view isn't always the best way to win people over to your viewpoint. Even worse, you risk people tuning you out. Maybe I'm just getting a sample bias because your most recent posts and comments have been on transmission licenses.
lazerwalker 15y ago
You don't think moving people away from physically using cards for the transactions is a big first step? With the transaction taking place without any physical handling of any paper or plastic, using a card as a payment source is just an implementation detail. It'll be trivial in the future for Square to add alternate funding sources without any pain to the user, and in the mean time it drives adoption because people are already used to the idea of giving Square their credit card info.
reissbaker 15y ago
What were the non-hardware non-card payment methods attempted? I'm familiar with NFC, and somewhat intimately familiar with Square and its card-based rivals, but the only alternatives I know of are those pay-through-your-carrier attempts that are an even bigger can of worms than a card company. Were there others? To reference your Visa point (which I suspect wasn't serious), Square was card-based long before the Visa investment.
- thinkcomp 15y ago
  Starbucks (for payments) and the airlines (for boarding passes) have done pretty well with barcode scanners. It requires hardware only on the merchant side than most merchants already have in one form or another.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - reissbaker 15y ago
    Er. But unless you've given Starbucks direct access to your bank account, those are fundamentally card-based too.
    - thinkcomp 15y ago
      Not quite. Starbucks uses its own pre-paid system that does use a plastic card, but one without any major network's logo on it. It's just store credit.
      - corin_ 15y ago
        And in America (I believe - last I heard it was rolled out in some American cities but not others, nothing here in the UK) the iPhone/Android/Blackberry(?) apps let you manage your account balance, and you hold up your phone for the cashier to scan the barcode off your screen.
      - vidarh 15y ago
jcampbell1 15y ago
What is the fundamental problem with cards? What needs to be disrupted? Paying with phones is cute, but it is really just technical masturbation, as there is only a tiny connivence benefit and it is slower than a no sign swipe. I have been able to pay with my phone for 2 years now, and I hardly ever do it. My MC pay-pass RFID card fits under my cellphone's battery cover. I am genuinely curious as to the problem that needs to be solved.

dpark 15y ago

And why exactly do you imagine that Square couldn't debit directly from a checking account in the future (as the article mentioned)?

thinkcomp 15y ago
Because they don't have any money transmitter licenses and it will take them a few years to get them.
- dpark 15y ago
  Hence the phrase "in the future". There's no way that Square doesn't see this obvious step. It's probably already in progress. Also I'm guessing that what Square currently does already requires a money transmitter license, since transmitting money is exactly what they do.
  - thinkcomp 15y ago
    Square does not currently require a license, and they have not yet applied for one in California.
    - dpark 15y ago
      Out of curiosity, where are you getting this info? From a cursory look, I was under the impression that they would need a license in every state that they'd do business in.
      - thinkcomp 15y ago
        It's all public information. Square is exempt from the California Money Transmission Act per FC § 1805(d) (see http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fin&group=01001-02000&file=1805-1806 http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fin&#3...), since it's actually JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. that is moving your money. Square does not have a license. http://www.dfi.ca.gov/directory/mt.asp http://www.dfi.ca.gov/directory/mt.asp And Square has no plans to get one as of last month. http://www.dfi.ca.gov/publications/summaries/2011/september.pdf http://www.dfi.ca.gov/publications/summaries/2011/september....
        dpark 15y ago
        Thanks! Would it not be possible for them to partner in the same fashion to do direct debit?
- mbreese 15y ago
  You're seriously still beating this horse? Why couldn't they partner with another institution that already has the appropriate licensing? Or, alternatively, they seem well enough funded to be able to post the appropriate bonds. I get your position, but with the constant whining, you're not winning over people.
  - thinkcomp 15y ago
    First, I'm not trying to win you over. I'm trying to get a license, as is my right. Second, a lot of people consider the particular fight I've chosen to pick fairly important, as it would do a lot to corrode the monopoly that banks hold on payment processing. So one person's whining is apparently another's heroic battle (not my words). Third, the issue of money transmission licenses is also directly relevant to this particular topic.
    - mbreese 15y ago
      I get it, I really do. I also think that freeing up the financial industry is needed. I'm not convinced that your way is the right one, but I'm not opposed. But I'm worried that you are starting to get into RMS territory... that most of what I read from you here is on this one issue, from a very distinct viewpoint. I'm not saying you're wrong (or that RMS is), just that such a myopic view isn't always the best way to win people over to your viewpoint. Even worse, you risk people tuning you out. Maybe I'm just getting a sample bias because your most recent posts and comments have been on transmission licenses.

lazerwalker 15y ago

You don't think moving people away from physically using cards for the transactions is a big first step? With the transaction taking place without any physical handling of any paper or plastic, using a card as a payment source is just an implementation detail. It'll be trivial in the future for Square to add alternate funding sources without any pain to the user, and in the mean time it drives adoption because people are already used to the idea of giving Square their credit card info.

reissbaker 15y ago

What were the non-hardware non-card payment methods attempted? I'm familiar with NFC, and somewhat intimately familiar with Square and its card-based rivals, but the only alternatives I know of are those pay-through-your-carrier attempts that are an even bigger can of worms than a card company. Were there others? To reference your Visa point (which I suspect wasn't serious), Square was card-based long before the Visa investment.

thinkcomp 15y ago
Starbucks (for payments) and the airlines (for boarding passes) have done pretty well with barcode scanners. It requires hardware only on the merchant side than most merchants already have in one form or another.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- reissbaker 15y ago
  Er. But unless you've given Starbucks direct access to your bank account, those are fundamentally card-based too.
  - thinkcomp 15y ago
    Not quite. Starbucks uses its own pre-paid system that does use a plastic card, but one without any major network's logo on it. It's just store credit.
    - corin_ 15y ago
      And in America (I believe - last I heard it was rolled out in some American cities but not others, nothing here in the UK) the iPhone/Android/Blackberry(?) apps let you manage your account balance, and you hold up your phone for the cashier to scan the barcode off your screen.
    - vidarh 15y ago

jcampbell1 15y ago

What is the fundamental problem with cards? What needs to be disrupted? Paying with phones is cute, but it is really just technical masturbation, as there is only a tiny connivence benefit and it is slower than a no sign swipe. I have been able to pay with my phone for 2 years now, and I hardly ever do it. My MC pay-pass RFID card fits under my cellphone's battery cover. I am genuinely curious as to the problem that needs to be solved.