5 ms·

More Guns, More Unintended Consequences

7 points by johnny313 4y ago

Finnucane 4y ago
Not unintended consequences. More gun violence is a feature, not a bug.
sharemywin 4y ago
The idea that your going to fight off the state is ridiculous. I would much rather a couple police officers give me a warrant and take me to the station then the swat enter my home because I'm a violent threat and have a shoot out with my kids in the house.
- Geonode 4y ago
  Ask Afghanistan or Vietnam about that. Unfortunately police do violent no-knock raids and murder people regardless of whether or not the person has guns or a history of violence.
  - palmetieri2000 4y ago
    How often do people successfully defend themselves from police in violent no-knock raids? My assumption is that it typically goes about as well for them as if the police tried to kill them and they weren't armed, at 'best' they take someone down with them, but feel free to prove me wrong. People arguing your point love to bring up Afghanistan and Vietnam like the state of those countries during their respective wars was something other than abysmally horrific with a massive scale of death and destruction. Imagine if a similar level of conflict occurred in just one region of the US. Further, what is the state of those countries post war? Comparable to the US? They also seem reluctant to acknowledge that the existence of citizen-combatants in both of those countries are a contributing reason to the extensive murder of noncombatant civilians by the US army in those areas. Ie, because the guerilla warfare was so extensive the larger military was more willing to engage in broader targeting of the citizenry. Any reason you think this wouldn't happen in the US if we assume a rogue US military?
Geonode 4y ago
Statistically incorrect, areas with the strictest gun laws have the most gun crime, not just total, but per Capita. Guns are successfully used by potential victims for self defense more than 50,000 times per year in the US.
- Erem 4y ago
  A recent study using 2020 data from the CDC shows the opposite. [States with weaker gun laws have higher rates of firearm related homicides and suicides, study finds](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/01/20/us/everytown-weak-gun-laws-high-gun-deaths-study/index.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/01/20/us/e...) Do you have a source handy that can refute either the data, analysis, or conclusions of that study? Or maybe your source includes other gun crime besides just homicide and suicide, which were the only events included in the study from what I can tell
  - SamReidHughes 4y ago
    Why are you wasting our time with suicide numbers?
    - the_only_law 4y ago
      Well, at least the had a source to provide.

7 points by johnny313 4y ago

Not unintended consequences. More gun violence is a feature, not a bug.

The idea that your going to fight off the state is ridiculous. I would much rather a couple police officers give me a warrant and take me to the station then the swat enter my home because I'm a violent threat and have a shoot out with my kids in the house.

Geonode 4y ago
Ask Afghanistan or Vietnam about that. Unfortunately police do violent no-knock raids and murder people regardless of whether or not the person has guns or a history of violence.
- palmetieri2000 4y ago
  How often do people successfully defend themselves from police in violent no-knock raids? My assumption is that it typically goes about as well for them as if the police tried to kill them and they weren't armed, at 'best' they take someone down with them, but feel free to prove me wrong. People arguing your point love to bring up Afghanistan and Vietnam like the state of those countries during their respective wars was something other than abysmally horrific with a massive scale of death and destruction. Imagine if a similar level of conflict occurred in just one region of the US. Further, what is the state of those countries post war? Comparable to the US? They also seem reluctant to acknowledge that the existence of citizen-combatants in both of those countries are a contributing reason to the extensive murder of noncombatant civilians by the US army in those areas. Ie, because the guerilla warfare was so extensive the larger military was more willing to engage in broader targeting of the citizenry. Any reason you think this wouldn't happen in the US if we assume a rogue US military?

Geonode 4y ago

Statistically incorrect, areas with the strictest gun laws have the most gun crime, not just total, but per Capita. Guns are successfully used by potential victims for self defense more than 50,000 times per year in the US.

Erem 4y ago
A recent study using 2020 data from the CDC shows the opposite. [States with weaker gun laws have higher rates of firearm related homicides and suicides, study finds](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/01/20/us/everytown-weak-gun-laws-high-gun-deaths-study/index.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/01/20/us/e...) Do you have a source handy that can refute either the data, analysis, or conclusions of that study? Or maybe your source includes other gun crime besides just homicide and suicide, which were the only events included in the study from what I can tell
- SamReidHughes 4y ago
  Why are you wasting our time with suicide numbers?
  - the_only_law 4y ago
    Well, at least the had a source to provide.