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I just don't understand why some people are so keen on making in-person or hybrid work, it won't in the long run because you are competing with companies that d

I just don't understand why some people are so keen on making in-person or hybrid work, it won't in the long run because you are competing with companies that doesn't have the overhead of an office, HR, logistics etc. This is the new normal, you either accept it or keep trying to go back to what will never be going forward. I also don't really believe people claiming they are losing productivity in WFH, its most likely that they were never productive to begin with and its becoming magnified. The latter group often expresses it emotional terms like : not having human interactions, missing out on watercooler talks, acknowledgement. Perhaps these emotions are being surfaced because there is nothing to hide behind anymore.

wollsmoth 4y ago
I think it varies by person. I'm remote but still go in to the office from time to time and a lot of times the days I go in are my most productive days. But I know it's not the same for everyone.
dleslie 4y ago
> I also don't really believe people claiming they are losing productivity in WFH, its most likely that they were never productive to begin with and its becoming magnified. Often such comments frame their productivity in terms of impromptu discussions, or over-staffed meetings. I suspect they're the sort of people who feel jointly productive so long as they're engaged with the productive people during the process. Y'know, the sort destined for middle management. ;)
- acuozzo 4y ago
  … or the sort of people with young kids.
  - dleslie 4y ago
    I've raised two kids from birth to elementary while working from home, as the parent who did the sick care, before and after school care, and so forth. I'll take their company over that of an office any time. At least my kids respect me enough not to interrupt be when I've got headphones on and am working; something I can't say for any office I've ever worked in.
    - acuozzo 4y ago
      > At least my kids respect me enough not to interrupt be when I've got headphones on Every situation is different. My eldest has moderate autism. I had to remind him last Saturday 165 times (I counted) to not touch a delicate trinket my partner has on display. I eventually chose to put it away. No amount of "respect" or reinforcement will fix this. His wiring is all screwed up.
      - dleslie 4y ago
        What amazes me is that it took you 165 attempts for you to put it away. Nothing within reach of children is of any value in my home. I liken having children in my home to living with rising flood waters, which destroy everything in their reach.
        acuozzo 4y ago
        > What amazes me is that it took you 165 attempts for you to put it away. If I don't try, he'll never learn. He's already fighting uphill. I'm not going to disable him further by raising him in an environment which presents no challenges of its own.
        dleslie 4y ago
        You counted over a dozen dozens, which is eyebrow raising. That doesn't sound like presenting structured failure opportunities, it sounds like you're imposing an environment that creates aggravation for all of you. I have severely autistic family members, so I'm not unfamiliar with the challenges. Stubbornly butting heads with them never achieves much headway.
acuozzo 4y ago
I am in favor of each employee working within the environment in which they are most productive. With that being said, I am one of the most productive members of my team and I am completely unable to WFH. I hate meetings. I don't often engage in water-cooler chat. I wish I had the option to occupy an office full-time. I am an introvert. Being at home simultaneously relaxes me and stresses me out since it constantly reminds me of chores and home maintenance tasks that need to get done. Furthermore, my three young children seem to be constantly starved for my attention, so hiding behind a closed door leads to many disruptions and tears. Hell, I'm not even able to WFH on non-work-related tasks I enjoy!
doktorhladnjak 4y ago
I just don’t understand why some people assume that others must only be exactly like them with the same preferences or affinity for a certain kind of work environment.
twh270 4y ago
I think during the lockdown phase most people worked hard to do their part, whether they liked it or not, because it was seen as temporary, and hey we're all in this together fighting a friggin' pandemic, and other reasons. And companies of course had no choice in the matter either. So everyone made it work, as best they could, to a greater or lesser degree. Now we're transitioning into a post-lockdown "new normal". Some companies and people are finding that full-remote is great: they've figured out how to make it work (hint: culture, trust, and communication are huge factors). Others, not so much. I think the next few years are going to be interesting. My suspicion is companies that have figured out how to do remote well are going to absolutely crush it, and companies with a poor culture that go back to 100% in-office are going to have a bad time. (I'm currently at one of these companies and am actively looking for a new job.)
- upupandup 4y ago
  I hear a lot of cases where a large chunk of the workforce quit overnight because of mandated return to office
noelherrick 4y ago
I never want to go to the office again (especially open floor plans), but I think you are being unfair to folks who like the office. Human interaction and energy are 100% a thing. I used to think sports were the most boring thing to watch, but then I went to an American football game where people cared. The energy was electric. There are people that need people around to work. Perhaps it can be once a week, once a month, etc., but some workers actually need people. It's inhumane for some people. Stigmatizing them as unproductive without any other facts is just black and white thinking that does not advance the conversation.

wollsmoth 4y ago

I think it varies by person. I'm remote but still go in to the office from time to time and a lot of times the days I go in are my most productive days. But I know it's not the same for everyone.

dleslie 4y ago

> I also don't really believe people claiming they are losing productivity in WFH, its most likely that they were never productive to begin with and its becoming magnified. Often such comments frame their productivity in terms of impromptu discussions, or over-staffed meetings. I suspect they're the sort of people who feel jointly productive so long as they're engaged with the productive people during the process. Y'know, the sort destined for middle management. ;)

acuozzo 4y ago
… or the sort of people with young kids.
- dleslie 4y ago
  I've raised two kids from birth to elementary while working from home, as the parent who did the sick care, before and after school care, and so forth. I'll take their company over that of an office any time. At least my kids respect me enough not to interrupt be when I've got headphones on and am working; something I can't say for any office I've ever worked in.
  - acuozzo 4y ago
    > At least my kids respect me enough not to interrupt be when I've got headphones on Every situation is different. My eldest has moderate autism. I had to remind him last Saturday 165 times (I counted) to not touch a delicate trinket my partner has on display. I eventually chose to put it away. No amount of "respect" or reinforcement will fix this. His wiring is all screwed up.
    - dleslie 4y ago
      What amazes me is that it took you 165 attempts for you to put it away. Nothing within reach of children is of any value in my home. I liken having children in my home to living with rising flood waters, which destroy everything in their reach.
      - acuozzo 4y ago
        > What amazes me is that it took you 165 attempts for you to put it away. If I don't try, he'll never learn. He's already fighting uphill. I'm not going to disable him further by raising him in an environment which presents no challenges of its own.
        dleslie 4y ago
        You counted over a dozen dozens, which is eyebrow raising. That doesn't sound like presenting structured failure opportunities, it sounds like you're imposing an environment that creates aggravation for all of you. I have severely autistic family members, so I'm not unfamiliar with the challenges. Stubbornly butting heads with them never achieves much headway.

acuozzo 4y ago

I am in favor of each employee working within the environment in which they are most productive. With that being said, I am one of the most productive members of my team and I am completely unable to WFH. I hate meetings. I don't often engage in water-cooler chat. I wish I had the option to occupy an office full-time. I am an introvert. Being at home simultaneously relaxes me and stresses me out since it constantly reminds me of chores and home maintenance tasks that need to get done. Furthermore, my three young children seem to be constantly starved for my attention, so hiding behind a closed door leads to many disruptions and tears. Hell, I'm not even able to WFH on non-work-related tasks I enjoy!

doktorhladnjak 4y ago

I just don’t understand why some people assume that others must only be exactly like them with the same preferences or affinity for a certain kind of work environment.

twh270 4y ago

I think during the lockdown phase most people worked hard to do their part, whether they liked it or not, because it was seen as temporary, and hey we're all in this together fighting a friggin' pandemic, and other reasons. And companies of course had no choice in the matter either. So everyone made it work, as best they could, to a greater or lesser degree. Now we're transitioning into a post-lockdown "new normal". Some companies and people are finding that full-remote is great: they've figured out how to make it work (hint: culture, trust, and communication are huge factors). Others, not so much. I think the next few years are going to be interesting. My suspicion is companies that have figured out how to do remote well are going to absolutely crush it, and companies with a poor culture that go back to 100% in-office are going to have a bad time. (I'm currently at one of these companies and am actively looking for a new job.)

upupandup 4y ago
I hear a lot of cases where a large chunk of the workforce quit overnight because of mandated return to office

noelherrick 4y ago

I never want to go to the office again (especially open floor plans), but I think you are being unfair to folks who like the office. Human interaction and energy are 100% a thing. I used to think sports were the most boring thing to watch, but then I went to an American football game where people cared. The energy was electric. There are people that need people around to work. Perhaps it can be once a week, once a month, etc., but some workers actually need people. It's inhumane for some people. Stigmatizing them as unproductive without any other facts is just black and white thinking that does not advance the conversation.