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Another issue: not everyone has JavaScript enabled, and it's good to back off to something useful without JavaScript where that is sensible. Many security-mind

Another issue: not everyone has JavaScript enabled, and it's good to back off to something useful without JavaScript where that is sensible. Many security-minded folks think that "auto run arbitrary code from random websites" is more dangerous than the alternative. Indeed, this isanifestly true. Many sites should be able to provide a useful service without JavaScript. Sure, that's unreasonable for some sites (like Google docs), but for others it is perfectly reasonable.

Graffur 4y ago
> not everyone has JavaScript enabled What are the stats? I assume it's > 99% have JavaScript enabled. Any significant percentage could be down to corporate policies.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  Stupid question, but given that most analytics are gathered via JS, I wonder if that might fall into the same sampling bias as "we called 100 random people and everyone has a phone!"
  - Graffur 4y ago
    It's a good point. I'm not sure how it would be tracked. I just can't think of anyone I know that even might browse with JS off. It's on as a default setting and I think it is fair to say that most of the world don't know what JS is.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      > I just can't think of anyone I know that even might browse with JS off. Hi new internet friend. I have it whitelisted for some (perhaps many) sites. But even if it was on, things like google analytics are still blocked (at least I hope they are! Tracking is a never-ending battle)
    - dwheeler 4y ago
      Most people leave JS on, but several browsers (e.g., Tor browser) and browser extensions make it easy to turn ir off (e.g. for improved security). Many tools, e.g. Lynx, curl, wget, do not implement JavaScript.
    - Dma54rhs 4y ago
      With some magic image inside noscript tag.
  - likortera 4y ago
    In the last 20 years doing web development, I haven't ever had one single colleague, friend or customer complaining of any site not working because they had disabled JavaScript. Literally didn't heard about anyone around me with this problem not even a single time. The only place I randomly see mentions this problem is in HN. That has to count for something.
- JasonFruit 4y ago
  Some of it, too, is that if it were more practical, more people would disable it.
likortera 4y ago
Even if building MPAS with js sprinkles, nobody is going to put the effort to build and test a non-js versions for the 0.01% of weirdos turning off JavaScript in 2022. Just don't use my service
- dwheeler 4y ago
  I do. It's easy to test. If it's a simple CRUD application, just test to ensure that simple read, edit, delete are supported, typically using REST. Done. In fact, it's much easier to test than seriously testing a system with client-side JavaScript.

Graffur 4y ago

> not everyone has JavaScript enabled What are the stats? I assume it's > 99% have JavaScript enabled. Any significant percentage could be down to corporate policies.

HWR_14 4y ago
Stupid question, but given that most analytics are gathered via JS, I wonder if that might fall into the same sampling bias as "we called 100 random people and everyone has a phone!"
- Graffur 4y ago
  It's a good point. I'm not sure how it would be tracked. I just can't think of anyone I know that even might browse with JS off. It's on as a default setting and I think it is fair to say that most of the world don't know what JS is.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    > I just can't think of anyone I know that even might browse with JS off. Hi new internet friend. I have it whitelisted for some (perhaps many) sites. But even if it was on, things like google analytics are still blocked (at least I hope they are! Tracking is a never-ending battle)
  - dwheeler 4y ago
    Most people leave JS on, but several browsers (e.g., Tor browser) and browser extensions make it easy to turn ir off (e.g. for improved security). Many tools, e.g. Lynx, curl, wget, do not implement JavaScript.
  - Dma54rhs 4y ago
    With some magic image inside noscript tag.
- likortera 4y ago
  In the last 20 years doing web development, I haven't ever had one single colleague, friend or customer complaining of any site not working because they had disabled JavaScript. Literally didn't heard about anyone around me with this problem not even a single time. The only place I randomly see mentions this problem is in HN. That has to count for something.
JasonFruit 4y ago
Some of it, too, is that if it were more practical, more people would disable it.

likortera 4y ago

Even if building MPAS with js sprinkles, nobody is going to put the effort to build and test a non-js versions for the 0.01% of weirdos turning off JavaScript in 2022. Just don't use my service

dwheeler 4y ago
I do. It's easy to test. If it's a simple CRUD application, just test to ensure that simple read, edit, delete are supported, typically using REST. Done. In fact, it's much easier to test than seriously testing a system with client-side JavaScript.