3 ms·

We are still full remote and I don't think anyone has any intention to go back to "in-person" honestly. As a side note: I think the reason you are going to fin

by ragnot 4y ago

We are still full remote and I don't think anyone has any intention to go back to "in-person" honestly. As a side note: I think the reason you are going to find so much friction with this is for the first time in recent history "workers" (specifically software engineers) have incredible leverage over management. I honestly don't think we've seen this since the days of labor unions. Think about it: software engineers have such an in-demand, ubiquitous skillset that they can command huge salaries, get incredible perks AND now they can say "I don't want to be constrained to a location". Don't like your job? Don't worry about it, get a pay raise and you don't even have to change your office (because it's your bedroom/study/den/whatever). Boss is being a dick? Move and get a raise. Don't like co-workers who talk to much? You don't even have a water cooler to gossip around! Software engineers have so much power now it's ridiculous and it honestly pisses off a lot of people who spent their entire lives brown-nosing and grinding only to have a young hotshot come in and earn more than they ever did at their age. I mean if I could get $5 for the number of times I've had older people tell me that I'm being too greedy for demanding SWE comps because "I never earned that much at your age" I could buy a really nice house in the Bay Area.

alldayeveryday 4y ago
In a similar position - we went fully remote and have stayed that way. I do sense from the c-suite that they would love to get people back into office - I think driven more than anything by distrust of their workforce. Re: engineers having leverage I am keen to see if this changes in the coming months. With so many layoffs will come more competition for each open role. Do we hit a point where there are more unemployed software engineers VS open engineering roles? Time will tell. If we do hit that point employers may go back to having leverage to dictate office. As an aside, I really dislike recruiters who deceive you during recruiting. Both my wife and I have had recruiters tell us a company was allowing fully remote or hybrid, just to find out the actual policy is 3,4 days a week in office.
ajcp 4y ago
I wonder if that makes it the best time for software engineers to form a union? I think the conventional wisdom is that unions are formed to benefit those without power otherwise, but would it make sense to unionize to maximize an already outsized position? Would that thereby ensure (to an extent) those proceeds for when a bargaining position might not be as powerful? The Icelandic press industry (I know, just hang in there with me) had a couple of amazing years in the 80s that the journalist(?) unions used as an opportunity to lock down some really progressive benefits that they still exercise today.
- msmenardi 4y ago
  Check out "No Shortcuts" by Jane McAlevey. Great book about creating a tech union, and it gives background on how other industries did it (and often where they went wrong)
  - ajcp 4y ago
    Excellent, thanks so much!
ipaddr 4y ago
Yet most of us live in agile standup factory farming shops and where each time we interview we have to win a star search competition.
make_it_sure 4y ago
That's not great for bootstrapped startups looking to hire. I see this will hit the startup ecosystem hard, at least bootstrapped ones. Even for venture backed statups, the money doesn't flow around as much as before so eventually this big power developers have it's way too much and it will balance in the next few years.

by ragnot 4y ago

alldayeveryday 4y ago

In a similar position - we went fully remote and have stayed that way. I do sense from the c-suite that they would love to get people back into office - I think driven more than anything by distrust of their workforce. Re: engineers having leverage I am keen to see if this changes in the coming months. With so many layoffs will come more competition for each open role. Do we hit a point where there are more unemployed software engineers VS open engineering roles? Time will tell. If we do hit that point employers may go back to having leverage to dictate office. As an aside, I really dislike recruiters who deceive you during recruiting. Both my wife and I have had recruiters tell us a company was allowing fully remote or hybrid, just to find out the actual policy is 3,4 days a week in office.

ajcp 4y ago

I wonder if that makes it the best time for software engineers to form a union? I think the conventional wisdom is that unions are formed to benefit those without power otherwise, but would it make sense to unionize to maximize an already outsized position? Would that thereby ensure (to an extent) those proceeds for when a bargaining position might not be as powerful? The Icelandic press industry (I know, just hang in there with me) had a couple of amazing years in the 80s that the journalist(?) unions used as an opportunity to lock down some really progressive benefits that they still exercise today.

msmenardi 4y ago
Check out "No Shortcuts" by Jane McAlevey. Great book about creating a tech union, and it gives background on how other industries did it (and often where they went wrong)
- ajcp 4y ago
  Excellent, thanks so much!

ipaddr 4y ago

Yet most of us live in agile standup factory farming shops and where each time we interview we have to win a star search competition.

make_it_sure 4y ago

That's not great for bootstrapped startups looking to hire. I see this will hit the startup ecosystem hard, at least bootstrapped ones. Even for venture backed statups, the money doesn't flow around as much as before so eventually this big power developers have it's way too much and it will balance in the next few years.