6 ms·

just install XFCE and don't worry about it. as long as the apt repositories are stable, let them play with their GUI and you can go back worry about something

just install XFCE and don't worry about it. as long as the apt repositories are stable, let them play with their GUI and you can go back worry about something more interesting.

rsanchez1 15y ago
Or show Shuttleworth how wrong he is and switch to another distro, most likely Debian for those who are most comfortable with Ubuntu.
- Sapient 15y ago
  I actually switched to Mint 11 after 11.04 and found it to be a really good alternative. Specifically because it didn't break everything and has access to all the Ubuntu repos and tools. I switched back to Ubuntu for 11.10, hoping some of the things which pushed me to Mint in the first place had been fixed, but I am again bitterly disappointed. Unfortunately, I value having a pretty interface, I find xfce ugly, and simply installing gnome 2 in 11.10 doesn't "just work". I also tried Arch, but I found I was spending too much time getting it to work how I wanted, and I eventually gave up on it for the same reason I stopped using Gentoo. The one thing I never considered was switching to Debian - which might be the best idea yet!
  - jfoster 15y ago
    If you like Mint, why not just use that?
    - Sapient 15y ago
      A few minor annoyances with the using the Ubuntu repositories. Mint, on occasion, looking for Katya repos. Actually, I do wish I had just stuck with Mint, but I dont have time to go back now, and If I am going to install another distro, then why not Debian...
apg 15y ago
If Linux ever becomes popular on the desktop, it won't be because of Unity, that's for sure. It's a resource hog and it breaks too many established UI conventions. Unity forced me to start using the keyboard for most things. I'll give XFCE a try. I don't want to leave Ubuntu, because I like the packages and I don't have to read a manifesto sized manual to install it or learn another package system.
- mambodog 15y ago
  UI conventions established by what? Other Linux desktop environments? Established among whom? Old-hat Linux users? Perhaps that's not who they're targeting.
  - groovy2shoes 15y ago
    The problem is that they're targeting non-users so heavily that they're alienating the users they already have. If they never take user input to heart, they're going to wind up with no users.
  - pyre 15y ago
    There is already a contingent of non-power users using Ubuntu. If they alienate those users then who are they really targetting? Shouldn't they worry about user retention in addition to user acquisition?
- andrewflnr 15y ago
  Linux Mint uses Ubuntu's packages, and is still on Gnome. You might want to give it a shot.
- SkyMarshal 15y ago
  >Unity forced me to start using the keyboard for most things. That's not a good thing? I haven't used Unity yet, but might try it out just on that comment alone.
  - Jach 15y ago
    I presume he means it in a bad way, not in a good way like tiling WMs have.
technomancy 15y ago
Yeah, we can all agree we hate Unity, but the constant complaining about it is disproportionate to the ease with which it's replaced.
- angusgr 15y ago
  I think this ease is somewhat offset by the extent to which Ubuntu are pushing it. When I updated to 11.04 I tried Unity for about 3 hours, got annoyed by certain things hurting my work style (the all-workspaces Alt-Tab mentioned above being one), and logged out and back in via "Classic Ubuntu". I felt no antipathy towards Ubuntu at this point, and I was impressed they were trying new things. They just weren't for me. Then 11.10 came out, and immediately my machine starts bugging me to upgrade. Apparently when 11.04 came out Canonical had said that Classic wouldn't be available in 11.10, but I missed this. The upgrade process doesn't prompt you about that fact at all - it just takes the GNOME configuration that you were using, uninstalls it, and gives you only Unity. After trying Unity again (<1 hour this time), I went to do the same old "Ubuntu Classic" switch and there was no option. That's when I got cranky. I had to Google to find out how to get back the desktop environment I'd had before I upgraded. I would have felt good about the Ubuntu upgrade if any of the following had happened: - Upgrade process had said "Please note the environment you are currently using (Ubuntu Classic) will not be available after you upgrade. You can install the gnome-panel package to re-enable it after you upgrade." - Upgrade process had seen that I was already using Ubuntu Classic and didn't remove the gnome-panel package as part of the upgrade process, letting me keep the Ubuntu Classic after my system upgraded. How would that have hurt? - (Best One) Upgrade process would have asked me "Would you like to try the new and improved Unity environment after you upgrade? If you change your mind later on, you can log back in as Ubuntu Classic" (alternatively, it could have said "install gnome-panel package and then log back in as Ubuntu Classic" if they couldn't bear to leave those packages installed.) I agree that to some extent this is me whining like an indulgent nerd about an OS I got given for free, but it's also bad UX on the part of Ubuntu. During a standard upgrade, your operating system shouldn't decide that the way you've been using it is wrong, and give you an unexpected and not immediately reversible transition to a different way of using it. That's hubris on the part of Canonical.
  - 15y ago
mr_dev4 15y ago
http://www.xubuntu.org/ http://www.xubuntu.org/
- jff 15y ago
  I never really saw the point of Xubuntu--I mean, 10 minutes in Ubuntu will give you the same thing, why have an whole separate distribution when the biggest change is the default desktop environment?
  - lvillani 15y ago
    It's not a whole separate distribution. It's akin to Fedora's "spins": an ISO with a different default set of packages. Nothing prevents you from installing Ubuntu proper and then "apt-get install xubuntu-desktop" on it. I agree, though, that this distinction is not clear enough by reading Xubuntu (or Kubuntu, Edubuntu, etc) websites.
    - jff 15y ago
      Ah, that definitely makes a lot more sense. Coming from Debian, I'm used to just saying "apt-get install <some window manager>" and switching to it immediately, so the Xubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu thing always tripped me up--but I guess the point isn't that you could do it the way I'm used to, but that you can more easily just grab an ISO to default the way you like it. Me, I usually just install a very basic Debian and pile crap on top as I go :)
javadyan 15y ago
Amen to that. Maybe when more people start switching to a desktop environment that is not completely braindead, the Ubuntu team will understand that they are doing something seriously wrong.

just install XFCE and don't worry about it. as long as the apt repositories are stable, let them play with their GUI and you can go back worry about something more interesting.

rsanchez1 15y ago

Or show Shuttleworth how wrong he is and switch to another distro, most likely Debian for those who are most comfortable with Ubuntu.

Sapient 15y ago
I actually switched to Mint 11 after 11.04 and found it to be a really good alternative. Specifically because it didn't break everything and has access to all the Ubuntu repos and tools. I switched back to Ubuntu for 11.10, hoping some of the things which pushed me to Mint in the first place had been fixed, but I am again bitterly disappointed. Unfortunately, I value having a pretty interface, I find xfce ugly, and simply installing gnome 2 in 11.10 doesn't "just work". I also tried Arch, but I found I was spending too much time getting it to work how I wanted, and I eventually gave up on it for the same reason I stopped using Gentoo. The one thing I never considered was switching to Debian - which might be the best idea yet!
- jfoster 15y ago
  If you like Mint, why not just use that?
  - Sapient 15y ago
    A few minor annoyances with the using the Ubuntu repositories. Mint, on occasion, looking for Katya repos. Actually, I do wish I had just stuck with Mint, but I dont have time to go back now, and If I am going to install another distro, then why not Debian...

apg 15y ago

If Linux ever becomes popular on the desktop, it won't be because of Unity, that's for sure. It's a resource hog and it breaks too many established UI conventions. Unity forced me to start using the keyboard for most things. I'll give XFCE a try. I don't want to leave Ubuntu, because I like the packages and I don't have to read a manifesto sized manual to install it or learn another package system.

mambodog 15y ago
UI conventions established by what? Other Linux desktop environments? Established among whom? Old-hat Linux users? Perhaps that's not who they're targeting.
- groovy2shoes 15y ago
  The problem is that they're targeting non-users so heavily that they're alienating the users they already have. If they never take user input to heart, they're going to wind up with no users.
- pyre 15y ago
  There is already a contingent of non-power users using Ubuntu. If they alienate those users then who are they really targetting? Shouldn't they worry about user retention in addition to user acquisition?
andrewflnr 15y ago
Linux Mint uses Ubuntu's packages, and is still on Gnome. You might want to give it a shot.
SkyMarshal 15y ago
>Unity forced me to start using the keyboard for most things. That's not a good thing? I haven't used Unity yet, but might try it out just on that comment alone.
- Jach 15y ago
  I presume he means it in a bad way, not in a good way like tiling WMs have.

technomancy 15y ago

Yeah, we can all agree we hate Unity, but the constant complaining about it is disproportionate to the ease with which it's replaced.

angusgr 15y ago
I think this ease is somewhat offset by the extent to which Ubuntu are pushing it. When I updated to 11.04 I tried Unity for about 3 hours, got annoyed by certain things hurting my work style (the all-workspaces Alt-Tab mentioned above being one), and logged out and back in via "Classic Ubuntu". I felt no antipathy towards Ubuntu at this point, and I was impressed they were trying new things. They just weren't for me. Then 11.10 came out, and immediately my machine starts bugging me to upgrade. Apparently when 11.04 came out Canonical had said that Classic wouldn't be available in 11.10, but I missed this. The upgrade process doesn't prompt you about that fact at all - it just takes the GNOME configuration that you were using, uninstalls it, and gives you only Unity. After trying Unity again (<1 hour this time), I went to do the same old "Ubuntu Classic" switch and there was no option. That's when I got cranky. I had to Google to find out how to get back the desktop environment I'd had before I upgraded. I would have felt good about the Ubuntu upgrade if any of the following had happened: - Upgrade process had said "Please note the environment you are currently using (Ubuntu Classic) will not be available after you upgrade. You can install the gnome-panel package to re-enable it after you upgrade." - Upgrade process had seen that I was already using Ubuntu Classic and didn't remove the gnome-panel package as part of the upgrade process, letting me keep the Ubuntu Classic after my system upgraded. How would that have hurt? - (Best One) Upgrade process would have asked me "Would you like to try the new and improved Unity environment after you upgrade? If you change your mind later on, you can log back in as Ubuntu Classic" (alternatively, it could have said "install gnome-panel package and then log back in as Ubuntu Classic" if they couldn't bear to leave those packages installed.) I agree that to some extent this is me whining like an indulgent nerd about an OS I got given for free, but it's also bad UX on the part of Ubuntu. During a standard upgrade, your operating system shouldn't decide that the way you've been using it is wrong, and give you an unexpected and not immediately reversible transition to a different way of using it. That's hubris on the part of Canonical.
- 15y ago

mr_dev4 15y ago

http://www.xubuntu.org/ http://www.xubuntu.org/

jff 15y ago
I never really saw the point of Xubuntu--I mean, 10 minutes in Ubuntu will give you the same thing, why have an whole separate distribution when the biggest change is the default desktop environment?
- lvillani 15y ago
  It's not a whole separate distribution. It's akin to Fedora's "spins": an ISO with a different default set of packages. Nothing prevents you from installing Ubuntu proper and then "apt-get install xubuntu-desktop" on it. I agree, though, that this distinction is not clear enough by reading Xubuntu (or Kubuntu, Edubuntu, etc) websites.
  - jff 15y ago
    Ah, that definitely makes a lot more sense. Coming from Debian, I'm used to just saying "apt-get install <some window manager>" and switching to it immediately, so the Xubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu thing always tripped me up--but I guess the point isn't that you could do it the way I'm used to, but that you can more easily just grab an ISO to default the way you like it. Me, I usually just install a very basic Debian and pile crap on top as I go :)

javadyan 15y ago

Amen to that. Maybe when more people start switching to a desktop environment that is not completely braindead, the Ubuntu team will understand that they are doing something seriously wrong.