4 ms·

This is the opinion I always hear - but, after a decade, never really understood. (no shade - you're definitely in the majority with this opinion!) Crime is ba

This is the opinion I always hear - but, after a decade, never really understood. (no shade - you're definitely in the majority with this opinion!) Crime is bad, but concentrated in some parts of the city. Sure, I can't leave my bike with a cheap lock, but I've also lived in some questionable areas and never had real issues - nor have 95%+ of people I know, about the same rate as friends in other major cities (Philly, DC, etc.) Public schools are dysfunctional - yea, I guess I'm young, but isn't that similar in most major cities? Taxes are bad - yes, but so is NY/SF. Getting worse - fair point. Agree there. Weather - yea, fair. Sucks hard. Travel - yes, nothing close - but it's also an airline hub for 2/3 major airlines, and it's easy to get $100 tix to cool places. I guess I may have just been too young much of the time to "get it." But it has so many great things, too - the summers, the restaurants, the colleges, the neighborhood variety & subcultures. I kinda just wish I could buy long-term Calls on Chicago.

bedhead 4y ago
The crime issue is debatable based on various stats, and I would tie partly into my general comment about the culture having become uglier, but to me it felt like violent crime was a smog cloud constantly over the city. Sure, the odds of something bad happening to me or my family was very low in the absolute, but it was off the charts relative to others places. The reports of shootings and carjackings and armed robberies in my neighborhood were disconcerting and we would alter our lives to help avoid stuff. Eventually, I looked at my wife and said, "You know, we don't have to live like this. This isn't normal. It's only normal here." It's weird when you're surrounded by it every day for decades, like anything else it becomes normalized. CPS is uniquely dysfunctional with the number of times they strike. I had three kids in Coonley and the mood was constantly adversarial. The teachers see everyone as the enemy. It was pervasive and nasty and it spilled into the classroom. Like many other things it's become self-sorting. The good teachers mostly want to take a pay cut to go to a private school where the culture is different, and same for families that place a high value on education. The public system is the residual, and I'd say this is proven in various grim stats. I really just think the culture is ugly, I don't know how else to say it. Everything felt negative, everyone was angry. Leaders (and the majority who elect them) de facto support and enable all this dysfunction because for various reasons it's now part of their ethos. It wasn't until we moved that I understood it, and I admit it's very difficult to articulate. I'm not saying Chicago is a hell hole, but the future of Chicago is at best stagnant to me...real estate values partly prove that. Migration stats, especially among high earners, should be deeply concerning to anyone involved. I haven't even touched on how financially screwed Illinois is. The city just looks checkmated to me. This isn't Rochester but it's clearly in decline. When the companies start leaving is when people should start taking it really seriously, and we just had Caterpillar, Boeing, and now Citadel all bail, Citadel quite publicly. We can debate all sorts of things but the scoreboard here, the ultimate things which we'd use to measure a city's overall health and direction, is deeply and objectively troubling.
toomuchtodo 4y ago
Former Chicago suburbs native. Once you have kids, you’re not willing to take them to the Bean on a weekend and end up in the middle of a shooting. Taxes are higher in NY or SF, but if you have kids, you’re not moving there anyway (I’d pick Des Moines, IA or somewhere safe in the Rust Belt first). The weather might get better with climate change, but probably not enough to make the winters tolerable. It can get very cold, and you might as well live in Canadian latitudes those times of the year. CPS quality is low and likely to not improve in the time my kids would rely on it. Chicago could be great, but the effort required makes it a deep long dated out of the money call. Some deus ex machina intervention is going to be required to reduce crime, reduce the debt burden, and right size public services so a productive tax base will stay. Ideally, one works remotely for a Chicago firm and visits when the weather is good (between Memorial and Labor Day).
- curiousllama 4y ago
  > Once you have kids, you’re not willing to take them to the Bean on a weekend and end up in the middle of a shooting A (irresponsible) buddy of mine once drunkenly fell asleep by the bean, and was woken up by a nice homeless fellow who told him “hey man, can’t be sleeping here, the cops will fine you.” Wallet, phone, etc all still in his bag. I lived across the street from the bean for 3 years. I’m more likely to get injured in a car wreck driving around the suburbs than a shooting by the Bean
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    You do you, we have different risk tolerances. It just isn’t worth it to me. I am not feeling lucky.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      You are more likely to be shot in the Rust Belt than at the Bean, and it's not close.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

bedhead 4y ago

The crime issue is debatable based on various stats, and I would tie partly into my general comment about the culture having become uglier, but to me it felt like violent crime was a smog cloud constantly over the city. Sure, the odds of something bad happening to me or my family was very low in the absolute, but it was off the charts relative to others places. The reports of shootings and carjackings and armed robberies in my neighborhood were disconcerting and we would alter our lives to help avoid stuff. Eventually, I looked at my wife and said, "You know, we don't have to live like this. This isn't normal. It's only normal here." It's weird when you're surrounded by it every day for decades, like anything else it becomes normalized. CPS is uniquely dysfunctional with the number of times they strike. I had three kids in Coonley and the mood was constantly adversarial. The teachers see everyone as the enemy. It was pervasive and nasty and it spilled into the classroom. Like many other things it's become self-sorting. The good teachers mostly want to take a pay cut to go to a private school where the culture is different, and same for families that place a high value on education. The public system is the residual, and I'd say this is proven in various grim stats. I really just think the culture is ugly, I don't know how else to say it. Everything felt negative, everyone was angry. Leaders (and the majority who elect them) de facto support and enable all this dysfunction because for various reasons it's now part of their ethos. It wasn't until we moved that I understood it, and I admit it's very difficult to articulate. I'm not saying Chicago is a hell hole, but the future of Chicago is at best stagnant to me...real estate values partly prove that. Migration stats, especially among high earners, should be deeply concerning to anyone involved. I haven't even touched on how financially screwed Illinois is. The city just looks checkmated to me. This isn't Rochester but it's clearly in decline. When the companies start leaving is when people should start taking it really seriously, and we just had Caterpillar, Boeing, and now Citadel all bail, Citadel quite publicly. We can debate all sorts of things but the scoreboard here, the ultimate things which we'd use to measure a city's overall health and direction, is deeply and objectively troubling.

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Former Chicago suburbs native. Once you have kids, you’re not willing to take them to the Bean on a weekend and end up in the middle of a shooting. Taxes are higher in NY or SF, but if you have kids, you’re not moving there anyway (I’d pick Des Moines, IA or somewhere safe in the Rust Belt first). The weather might get better with climate change, but probably not enough to make the winters tolerable. It can get very cold, and you might as well live in Canadian latitudes those times of the year. CPS quality is low and likely to not improve in the time my kids would rely on it. Chicago could be great, but the effort required makes it a deep long dated out of the money call. Some deus ex machina intervention is going to be required to reduce crime, reduce the debt burden, and right size public services so a productive tax base will stay. Ideally, one works remotely for a Chicago firm and visits when the weather is good (between Memorial and Labor Day).

curiousllama 4y ago
> Once you have kids, you’re not willing to take them to the Bean on a weekend and end up in the middle of a shooting A (irresponsible) buddy of mine once drunkenly fell asleep by the bean, and was woken up by a nice homeless fellow who told him “hey man, can’t be sleeping here, the cops will fine you.” Wallet, phone, etc all still in his bag. I lived across the street from the bean for 3 years. I’m more likely to get injured in a car wreck driving around the suburbs than a shooting by the Bean
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  You do you, we have different risk tolerances. It just isn’t worth it to me. I am not feeling lucky.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    You are more likely to be shot in the Rust Belt than at the Bean, and it's not close.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]