3 ms·

OPEC is a cartel. In most econ 101 classes it is used as the most prevalent example of a cartel. I have never seen anyone argue that it is a labor union.

gruez 4y ago
Is a labor union not a cartel for labor?
- kyleplum 4y ago
  No because the company has other options for labor - it can fire it's entire workforce and rehire, or relocate. The same can't be said for cartels which have complete control over their respective markets.
  - missedthecue 4y ago
    Not in all industries or countries. This only applies to extremely weak unions. It is very difficult to hire non-uaw members for instance. There was a huge multi-month strike brining massive work stoppages a few years ago over this issue. Same with Kelloggs last year.
  - gruez 4y ago
    >No because the company has other options for labor [...] The same can't be said for cartels which have complete control over their respective markets. that's like saying OPEC isn't a cartel because you can still get oil from russia or canada. >it can fire it's entire workforce and rehire isn't that union-busting and/or illegal?
    - kyleplum 4y ago
      I'm not convinced that a single labor union has the power to influence the labor market outside of the specific company the union represents. This is not the case for OPEC who has sufficient power to manipulate the market. > isn't that union-busting and/or illegal? It's supposed to be, but it's often the case that corporations are not penalized to a sufficient amount (or at all) to deter this. We've seen many cases where it's cheaper for the corporation to pay these fines and continue doing what they are doing - in that sense the current laws are ineffective.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  No. A cartel is a set of profit seeking firms in a specific industry who hold enough market influence to dictate price. It is the coordinated actions of an oligopoly to manipulate the market. You don't need to own the full market, you just need to be able to influence the market as a whole. A union is, on a very surface level similar to a cartel, but unions are monopolies of labor, and do not represent the firms themselves. They are both attempts to manipulate markets through group decision making, but even academically, they aren't seen as the same thing. There is a reason that cartel formation is very illegal while union formation is a protected right.

gruez 4y ago

Is a labor union not a cartel for labor?

kyleplum 4y ago
No because the company has other options for labor - it can fire it's entire workforce and rehire, or relocate. The same can't be said for cartels which have complete control over their respective markets.
- missedthecue 4y ago
  Not in all industries or countries. This only applies to extremely weak unions. It is very difficult to hire non-uaw members for instance. There was a huge multi-month strike brining massive work stoppages a few years ago over this issue. Same with Kelloggs last year.
- gruez 4y ago
  >No because the company has other options for labor [...] The same can't be said for cartels which have complete control over their respective markets. that's like saying OPEC isn't a cartel because you can still get oil from russia or canada. >it can fire it's entire workforce and rehire isn't that union-busting and/or illegal?
  - kyleplum 4y ago
    I'm not convinced that a single labor union has the power to influence the labor market outside of the specific company the union represents. This is not the case for OPEC who has sufficient power to manipulate the market. > isn't that union-busting and/or illegal? It's supposed to be, but it's often the case that corporations are not penalized to a sufficient amount (or at all) to deter this. We've seen many cases where it's cheaper for the corporation to pay these fines and continue doing what they are doing - in that sense the current laws are ineffective.
dghlsakjg 4y ago
No. A cartel is a set of profit seeking firms in a specific industry who hold enough market influence to dictate price. It is the coordinated actions of an oligopoly to manipulate the market. You don't need to own the full market, you just need to be able to influence the market as a whole. A union is, on a very surface level similar to a cartel, but unions are monopolies of labor, and do not represent the firms themselves. They are both attempts to manipulate markets through group decision making, but even academically, they aren't seen as the same thing. There is a reason that cartel formation is very illegal while union formation is a protected right.