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I'm happy for you! Out of curiosity, did your current housing situation provide the space for a comfortable and productive home office, or is this unexpected d

I'm happy for you! Out of curiosity, did your current housing situation provide the space for a comfortable and productive home office, or is this unexpected development putting pressure on your housing situation? (If you're part of a trend, that has implications for preferred housing layout and square footage. And, of course people in different housing situations should be expected to respond differently to fully-remote opportunities..) (FWIW I'm single in a 600 sq ft apartment. I'm also a manager. My workspace needs for desk layout, equipment, and quiet are minimal compared to individual contributors, but I sometimes think of the perceived status implications when my humble abode appears on video, though I've reflected and don't really care..) Edit to add regarding status implications: believe it or not, a candidate I was interviewing actually blurted out "You're a manager in tech! How come you don't have a nicer house?". That got into my head briefly, until I decided that I don't care.

goodpoint 4y ago
> perceived status implications when my humble abode appears I would rather focus on the quality of someone's work than "status". Also, you can't find a "neutral" wall or window in 600sq?!
- bobthepanda 4y ago
  At such square footage I would imagine most wall space is taken up by furniture. Window is kinda bad since direct light makes cameras bad.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    For reference 600 sq ft is 55.742 sq m, which is a decent appartement for a single person in Paris, or a couple without kids. I've been to numerous apartments of a similar size and you can easily find a neutral(-ish, there can be a bookcase(??) and it's still neutral) wall.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
I live in a 700sqft basement suite with wife and 2 kids and am a manager myself. My office is (part of) the living room and I like showing to my team mates my human side all the time: that's who I am, so, I'm very happy when the children climb on me during meetings. Yeah, sometimes I have to deal with challenging situations, but overall, it's been going well. People expectations world-wide adjusted with covid,I'm really glad because it fits my lifestyle.
idiotsecant 4y ago
Can people really tell anything about your living situation from your teams call background, though? Just aim your camera at a neutral wall and you're good to go. You could be living in a giant palace or a inner city slum and nobody would know the difference.
- fatnoah 4y ago
  I recently left a large tech company. It was very obvious who was "higher up" in the food chain, as the home offices of Director+ level folks were generally larger and much more nicely decorated. At VP-level, they almost resembled super-villain lairs.
  - chasd00 4y ago
    Yes, at my firm one has a very extensive library behind them complete with ladders and everything.
- spoonjim 4y ago
  The marker of low socioeconomic status in a remote environment is disruptions to your video call. Kids crying, people walking through your background, people yelling, neighborhood dogs barking, etc. is something that doesn't get into your call when you're rich.
  - chasd00 4y ago
    Mostly right except for kids. All up and down the org chart at my firm there’s been interruptions by children haha. Also, sometimes things just happen no matter who you are. There was a US Supreme Court hearing over video chat and someone on the call flushed a toilet. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/06/politics/toilet-flush-supreme-court-oral-arguments/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/06/politics/toilet-flush-sup...
    - spoonjim 4y ago
      Sure, but the richer you are the less it happens, because you have staff to take care of kids, etc. Although I have noticed that kids appear on camera at the most senior and junior levels of the company. If I am working with an low-level assistant to get something done she might have a kid pop on camera and she's super embarrassed about it. If the CFO has his kid wander into the room in an all hands he picks her up and shows her off on camera. You'd like to think that this could normalize it for the assistant but that's of course not how power works.
fatnoah 4y ago
I'm not OP, but I'm a manager that's 100% WFH at this point. I had a spare bedroom to devote to the workspace, and that's been a lifesaver, since (for me) part of maintaining WLB has been the ability to physically change spaces as a way of reinforcing that I'm no longer in "work mode" before/after certain times. Even without a separate room, having a dedicated work area might be a good idea to help with that balance if that's a problem for you.
- CoffeeOnWrite 4y ago
  Yep, I look forward to upgrading my housing at some point, for these great reasons and more..
  - cupofpython 4y ago
    Buy a smart bulb for your WFH desk. Pick a color (example: bright white) that you only use when you are working. you might not notice anything at first, but after a while it really helps with shifting your mentality into or out of work mode very quickly. Very helpful at the start of a busy day, or the end of a rough day. Source: I did WFH for about 2 years before the pandemic in a 1 bedroom apartment that I shared with someone
    - dgunay 4y ago
      I did this for sleep hygiene reasons because my office is windowless (the light goes from cool, to warm, to red as the night goes on) and as a side effect I stopped working so late because it was easier to notice "hey, it's 6 pm, I should probably stop for the day".
    - cableshaft 4y ago
      Great idea. I double up my office space for work and for personal projects / hobbies outside of work (same desk and chair, different computers), but didn't consider having a dedicated colored light for it. I think I'll leave normal lighting for work, but then do a more playful color for hobbies, like purple or blue or red or something. I already have the light even, I just haven't been using it.
dml2135 4y ago
Living in NYC, I can't tell if by "status implications" you mean that a 600 sq ft apartment is swanky or cheap.
- gkop 4y ago
  Ah, I meant cheap (in terms of apartment space and interior, not in terms of rent). I'm in a nice neighborhood in Oakland, CA fwiw.
  - tessierashpool 4y ago
    600 sq ft in Oakland isn't that far off from 600 sq ft in NYC at this point. it's cheaper, but it's getting there. I've thought about moving back to the Bay, but I can get two to four times as much square feet at the same price, and I've been working mostly remote for almost 20 years.
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
I've worked remote for a long time. It's very common to see people working from their home bedrooms. First-time remote workers will often overthink their office, but seasoned remote workers don't really care. It's worth taking a minute to tidy up the room in your background, but nobody is going to be judging you for not having a dedicated home office. > I'm also a manager. My workspace needs for desk layout, equipment, and quiet are minimal compared to individual contributors At least in software, the space needs for everyone are fairly minimal. There are some creative solutions for monitor arms that can reduce the not-in-use footprint of a desk even further.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  Oh, I wouldn't think anyone would judge me, especially these days (plus there's blurred backgrounds etc). But a separate room I use for work helps me keep work separate from personal life when working from home. If I didn't have/couldn't afford that, I'd at least have a separate desk I use only for work. If not that either... it would be harder for me.
  - swader999 4y ago
    They'll judge you poorly for spotty or slow internet on calls more than the background of your home office.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      >They'll judge you poorly for spotty or slow internet on calls Of course, realize that there's a good chance there's nothing they can do about that.
      - swader999 4y ago
        Trying different providers and even different routers helped me. Wi-Fi is less reliable generally.
        4y ago
bcrosby95 4y ago
I've been remote since I graduated from college about 17 years ago, and I didn't get a dedicated office until 8 years ago. Before then my computer desk was in my bedroom. Sometimes a rather small bedroom.
nine_k 4y ago
> my humble abode appears on video Isn't blurring the background, or using a virtual background, nearly universal now? (Around me, it is.)
- CoffeeOnWrite 4y ago
  It's fairly popular in my organization yes, but too much trouble for me until/unless Google Meet supports it in Firefox.
  - harrydehal 4y ago
    Looks like it's supported in Google Meets (as well as Zoom): https://support.google.com/meet/answer/10058482?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop https://support.google.com/meet/answer/10058482?hl=en&co=GEN...
  - nine_k 4y ago
    For me, it does. I run Linux on a laptop with an integrated GPU.
    - CoffeeOnWrite 4y ago
      Oh my, what’s wrong with my Mac?? I’ll dig into this. Thanks!
michaelbuckbee 4y ago
Good lighting, a decent (almost anything other than the built-in) webcam and using software blur on your background will give you a better setup than 90% of other folks for not that much money.
drakonka 4y ago
I live in a 48sqm apartment and never even thought about this. I work usually either from my little desk and kneeling chair in my bedroom or my couch. My remote coworkers at different levels have all kinds of stuff in their backgrounds - pets, kids, books, walls, posters, clutter, paintings, and thinking back I have not once found myself judging them negatively _or_ positively for it. A candidate judging your house in an interview seems super awkward - for the candidate. What a weird thing to comment on.
- GenerocUsername 4y ago
  I judge people who still live in tiny apartments in downtown cores after 2 years of lockdowns and remote work. I don't want coworkers who are so stalwarts they stick with a bad plan for years. Get out of the city.
  - drakonka 4y ago
    I don't think you need to worry - those people probably don't want a presumptuous grump judging their living choices as a coworker either :)
  - peppermint_tea 4y ago
    i'll be enjoying my city life, thanks :)
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    I live in the city because I love living in a city. So many things to do, not needing to own a car (I hate driving). Having the whole world a few steps away. I need the buzz of a city around me. I lived in a tiny town in rural Ireland before and I was depressed and withering away. As I don't have a family I need more life around me than people who lock the front door at 6pm and settle down with the family for the night. Good for them but I don't work like that. And yes I work remote 80% of the time, the office is 20 mins on the subway away but I prefer home. Especially since we moved to this horrible hotdesking setup at the office. If I could get away with it I'd never go :) Not everyone's preferences and needs are the same.
- 4y ago
ketzo 4y ago
I had been working from home for a year and a half already in a very comfortable WFH setup, and knew I would have one going forward. That, obviously, makes a huge difference: I didn't need an office to work in, I just wanted one.
fm2606 4y ago
Not OP. When I was working in another field and working part time, remote developer I had my desk set up in my bedroom. When I went fulltime I converted a small, approx 5 ft x 7ft, closet to an office. I shoehorned a standup desk and a bookshelf in it. I have wired internet, desktop computer, laptop, everything I need. Is it the most comfortable, meh..sometimes yes sometimes no. But when my door is closed my wife and kids know that I can't be bothered. I do spend a lot of time away from the "office", sitting in the livingroom, on the patio etc but that I feel is part of the perks about WFH.

goodpoint 4y ago

> perceived status implications when my humble abode appears I would rather focus on the quality of someone's work than "status". Also, you can't find a "neutral" wall or window in 600sq?!

bobthepanda 4y ago
At such square footage I would imagine most wall space is taken up by furniture. Window is kinda bad since direct light makes cameras bad.
- sofixa 4y ago
  For reference 600 sq ft is 55.742 sq m, which is a decent appartement for a single person in Paris, or a couple without kids. I've been to numerous apartments of a similar size and you can easily find a neutral(-ish, there can be a bookcase(??) and it's still neutral) wall.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago

I live in a 700sqft basement suite with wife and 2 kids and am a manager myself. My office is (part of) the living room and I like showing to my team mates my human side all the time: that's who I am, so, I'm very happy when the children climb on me during meetings. Yeah, sometimes I have to deal with challenging situations, but overall, it's been going well. People expectations world-wide adjusted with covid,I'm really glad because it fits my lifestyle.

idiotsecant 4y ago

Can people really tell anything about your living situation from your teams call background, though? Just aim your camera at a neutral wall and you're good to go. You could be living in a giant palace or a inner city slum and nobody would know the difference.

fatnoah 4y ago
I recently left a large tech company. It was very obvious who was "higher up" in the food chain, as the home offices of Director+ level folks were generally larger and much more nicely decorated. At VP-level, they almost resembled super-villain lairs.
- chasd00 4y ago
  Yes, at my firm one has a very extensive library behind them complete with ladders and everything.
spoonjim 4y ago
The marker of low socioeconomic status in a remote environment is disruptions to your video call. Kids crying, people walking through your background, people yelling, neighborhood dogs barking, etc. is something that doesn't get into your call when you're rich.
- chasd00 4y ago
  Mostly right except for kids. All up and down the org chart at my firm there’s been interruptions by children haha. Also, sometimes things just happen no matter who you are. There was a US Supreme Court hearing over video chat and someone on the call flushed a toilet. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/06/politics/toilet-flush-supreme-court-oral-arguments/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/06/politics/toilet-flush-sup...
  - spoonjim 4y ago
    Sure, but the richer you are the less it happens, because you have staff to take care of kids, etc. Although I have noticed that kids appear on camera at the most senior and junior levels of the company. If I am working with an low-level assistant to get something done she might have a kid pop on camera and she's super embarrassed about it. If the CFO has his kid wander into the room in an all hands he picks her up and shows her off on camera. You'd like to think that this could normalize it for the assistant but that's of course not how power works.

fatnoah 4y ago

I'm not OP, but I'm a manager that's 100% WFH at this point. I had a spare bedroom to devote to the workspace, and that's been a lifesaver, since (for me) part of maintaining WLB has been the ability to physically change spaces as a way of reinforcing that I'm no longer in "work mode" before/after certain times. Even without a separate room, having a dedicated work area might be a good idea to help with that balance if that's a problem for you.

CoffeeOnWrite 4y ago
Yep, I look forward to upgrading my housing at some point, for these great reasons and more..
- cupofpython 4y ago
  Buy a smart bulb for your WFH desk. Pick a color (example: bright white) that you only use when you are working. you might not notice anything at first, but after a while it really helps with shifting your mentality into or out of work mode very quickly. Very helpful at the start of a busy day, or the end of a rough day. Source: I did WFH for about 2 years before the pandemic in a 1 bedroom apartment that I shared with someone
  - dgunay 4y ago
    I did this for sleep hygiene reasons because my office is windowless (the light goes from cool, to warm, to red as the night goes on) and as a side effect I stopped working so late because it was easier to notice "hey, it's 6 pm, I should probably stop for the day".
  - cableshaft 4y ago
    Great idea. I double up my office space for work and for personal projects / hobbies outside of work (same desk and chair, different computers), but didn't consider having a dedicated colored light for it. I think I'll leave normal lighting for work, but then do a more playful color for hobbies, like purple or blue or red or something. I already have the light even, I just haven't been using it.

dml2135 4y ago

Living in NYC, I can't tell if by "status implications" you mean that a 600 sq ft apartment is swanky or cheap.

gkop 4y ago
Ah, I meant cheap (in terms of apartment space and interior, not in terms of rent). I'm in a nice neighborhood in Oakland, CA fwiw.
- tessierashpool 4y ago
  600 sq ft in Oakland isn't that far off from 600 sq ft in NYC at this point. it's cheaper, but it's getting there. I've thought about moving back to the Bay, but I can get two to four times as much square feet at the same price, and I've been working mostly remote for almost 20 years.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

I've worked remote for a long time. It's very common to see people working from their home bedrooms. First-time remote workers will often overthink their office, but seasoned remote workers don't really care. It's worth taking a minute to tidy up the room in your background, but nobody is going to be judging you for not having a dedicated home office. > I'm also a manager. My workspace needs for desk layout, equipment, and quiet are minimal compared to individual contributors At least in software, the space needs for everyone are fairly minimal. There are some creative solutions for monitor arms that can reduce the not-in-use footprint of a desk even further.

jrochkind1 4y ago
Oh, I wouldn't think anyone would judge me, especially these days (plus there's blurred backgrounds etc). But a separate room I use for work helps me keep work separate from personal life when working from home. If I didn't have/couldn't afford that, I'd at least have a separate desk I use only for work. If not that either... it would be harder for me.
- swader999 4y ago
  They'll judge you poorly for spotty or slow internet on calls more than the background of your home office.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    >They'll judge you poorly for spotty or slow internet on calls Of course, realize that there's a good chance there's nothing they can do about that.
    - swader999 4y ago
      Trying different providers and even different routers helped me. Wi-Fi is less reliable generally.
      - 4y ago

bcrosby95 4y ago

I've been remote since I graduated from college about 17 years ago, and I didn't get a dedicated office until 8 years ago. Before then my computer desk was in my bedroom. Sometimes a rather small bedroom.

nine_k 4y ago

> my humble abode appears on video Isn't blurring the background, or using a virtual background, nearly universal now? (Around me, it is.)

CoffeeOnWrite 4y ago
It's fairly popular in my organization yes, but too much trouble for me until/unless Google Meet supports it in Firefox.
- harrydehal 4y ago
  Looks like it's supported in Google Meets (as well as Zoom): https://support.google.com/meet/answer/10058482?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop https://support.google.com/meet/answer/10058482?hl=en&co=GEN...
- nine_k 4y ago
  For me, it does. I run Linux on a laptop with an integrated GPU.
  - CoffeeOnWrite 4y ago
    Oh my, what’s wrong with my Mac?? I’ll dig into this. Thanks!

michaelbuckbee 4y ago

Good lighting, a decent (almost anything other than the built-in) webcam and using software blur on your background will give you a better setup than 90% of other folks for not that much money.

drakonka 4y ago

I live in a 48sqm apartment and never even thought about this. I work usually either from my little desk and kneeling chair in my bedroom or my couch. My remote coworkers at different levels have all kinds of stuff in their backgrounds - pets, kids, books, walls, posters, clutter, paintings, and thinking back I have not once found myself judging them negatively _or_ positively for it. A candidate judging your house in an interview seems super awkward - for the candidate. What a weird thing to comment on.

GenerocUsername 4y ago
I judge people who still live in tiny apartments in downtown cores after 2 years of lockdowns and remote work. I don't want coworkers who are so stalwarts they stick with a bad plan for years. Get out of the city.
- drakonka 4y ago
  I don't think you need to worry - those people probably don't want a presumptuous grump judging their living choices as a coworker either :)
- peppermint_tea 4y ago
  i'll be enjoying my city life, thanks :)
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  I live in the city because I love living in a city. So many things to do, not needing to own a car (I hate driving). Having the whole world a few steps away. I need the buzz of a city around me. I lived in a tiny town in rural Ireland before and I was depressed and withering away. As I don't have a family I need more life around me than people who lock the front door at 6pm and settle down with the family for the night. Good for them but I don't work like that. And yes I work remote 80% of the time, the office is 20 mins on the subway away but I prefer home. Especially since we moved to this horrible hotdesking setup at the office. If I could get away with it I'd never go :) Not everyone's preferences and needs are the same.
4y ago

ketzo 4y ago

I had been working from home for a year and a half already in a very comfortable WFH setup, and knew I would have one going forward. That, obviously, makes a huge difference: I didn't need an office to work in, I just wanted one.

fm2606 4y ago

Not OP. When I was working in another field and working part time, remote developer I had my desk set up in my bedroom. When I went fulltime I converted a small, approx 5 ft x 7ft, closet to an office. I shoehorned a standup desk and a bookshelf in it. I have wired internet, desktop computer, laptop, everything I need. Is it the most comfortable, meh..sometimes yes sometimes no. But when my door is closed my wife and kids know that I can't be bothered. I do spend a lot of time away from the "office", sitting in the livingroom, on the patio etc but that I feel is part of the perks about WFH.