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Not personal unless you take it that way -- instead take it as a challenge and show him he was wrong about you. Programming well is difficult and takes time an

Not personal unless you take it that way -- instead take it as a challenge and show him he was wrong about you. Programming well is difficult and takes time and effort to get good at, but it's worth it. Being junior and learning while remote is not ideal at all. I work very well remotely but only because everything is second nature to me now after so many years. If that makes me a 'top performer' then it's only because I worked my way up to that. Do you believe you are at your top performance already? Or can you get better still?

travisgriggs 4y ago
> Programming well is difficult and takes time and effort to get good at, but it's worth it. I agree very much with parts 1 and 2 of your assertion. At 51, with a decent brag list of successes, I think I’ve even achieved some measure of it. The part I’m not sure about is the “worth it.” I used to think that, I’ve become less sure of late. What makes it worth to you? I’m honestly curious. I used to have various things that made it worth it to me, and of late they’ve become less valued.
- ospzfmbbzr 4y ago
  Yeah I'm a bit jaded too. Would I get into this business today? Probably not. Mostly because of the potential employers, who they hire and why, and how success is 'measured' these days. I've been contract only for 17 years and I'll never go back to employment. I guess I'm lucky to have the option, but if I didn't I'd find another non-employment way to earn a living. As you say the problem is that individual contributor quality isn't valued as it should be -- it's not prioritized above say compliance with 'all the current things.' Engineering culture is mostly absent everywhere nowadays and in it's place a culture of entitlement and groupthink -- the hallmarks of failing institutions.
mgfist 4y ago
You're totally missing the original point. > I work very well remotely but only because everything is second nature to me now after so many years. This is coming from the narrow view that people who struggle remotely only do so because they are inexperienced. I know people who struggled because they lived in a small NYC apartment where their desk was 2 feet from their bed, and the lack of movement or change of environment was killer mentally. I know people who struggled because they are highly extroverted and not seeing people IRL led to crushing mental health issues. I know people who did not live up to their IRL potential because they thrive on watercooler chats for creativity. I know people who just felt disconnected remotely and didn't feel the purpose and connection to the team/company in person. Basically, "technical ability" is not the sole reason why someone would be worse remotely than in person. Likewise there are people who feel distracted in person and need the remote solitude or get drained from the commute.
- ospzfmbbzr 4y ago
  I don't think I'm missing the point... it's just that those seem like excuses and self-employed or self-directed workers are only making these excuses to themselves (as they fail). > This is coming from the narrow view that people who struggle remotely only do so because they are inexperienced. I know people who struggled because they lived in a small NYC apartment where their desk was 2 feet from their bed, and the lack of movement or change of environment was killer mentally. I know people who struggled because they are highly extroverted and not seeing people IRL led to crushing mental health issues. I know people who did not live up to their IRL potential because they thrive on watercooler chats for creativity. I know people who just felt disconnected remotely and didn't feel the purpose and connection to the team/company in person. I dealt with every one of these in varying degrees at one point or another. I still miss watercooler talk with interesting people but you can't have everything. If YOUR environment isn't conducive to getting work done -- fix it! - Inside too much? Get a dog or a hobby outside. (work is not a life) - Miss people? get a hobby where you meet people (work is not a life) - etc.. Who's responsibility is it to fix? YOURS (unless you want to fail but I guess at least you can blame someone else?) Now it's not easy to do these things... but nothing worthwhile is easy.
  - mgfist 4y ago
    > If YOUR environment isn't conducive to getting work done -- fix it! You listed a bunch of ways one can do this. I'll list one more: going to work in-person! I think we're in agreement here: environment plays a huge role in productivity and one should make changes if an environment is not conducive to productivity. I posit that changing your working model to one that suits you is just as valid a change as getting a dog or hobby. Importantly, I don't mean to say that in-person is better than remote. Just saying that people have different preferences, and the fact that not all people excel in all environments doesn't make them inferior. You just need to have one environment that works well.
  - Riverheart 4y ago
    > unless you want to fail Nobody wants to fail. Life is complicated. Maybe they tried and couldn't. Maybe they have obstacles we don't. We should be more empathetic. We don't know their stories.

travisgriggs 4y ago

> Programming well is difficult and takes time and effort to get good at, but it's worth it. I agree very much with parts 1 and 2 of your assertion. At 51, with a decent brag list of successes, I think I’ve even achieved some measure of it. The part I’m not sure about is the “worth it.” I used to think that, I’ve become less sure of late. What makes it worth to you? I’m honestly curious. I used to have various things that made it worth it to me, and of late they’ve become less valued.

ospzfmbbzr 4y ago
Yeah I'm a bit jaded too. Would I get into this business today? Probably not. Mostly because of the potential employers, who they hire and why, and how success is 'measured' these days. I've been contract only for 17 years and I'll never go back to employment. I guess I'm lucky to have the option, but if I didn't I'd find another non-employment way to earn a living. As you say the problem is that individual contributor quality isn't valued as it should be -- it's not prioritized above say compliance with 'all the current things.' Engineering culture is mostly absent everywhere nowadays and in it's place a culture of entitlement and groupthink -- the hallmarks of failing institutions.

mgfist 4y ago

You're totally missing the original point. > I work very well remotely but only because everything is second nature to me now after so many years. This is coming from the narrow view that people who struggle remotely only do so because they are inexperienced. I know people who struggled because they lived in a small NYC apartment where their desk was 2 feet from their bed, and the lack of movement or change of environment was killer mentally. I know people who struggled because they are highly extroverted and not seeing people IRL led to crushing mental health issues. I know people who did not live up to their IRL potential because they thrive on watercooler chats for creativity. I know people who just felt disconnected remotely and didn't feel the purpose and connection to the team/company in person. Basically, "technical ability" is not the sole reason why someone would be worse remotely than in person. Likewise there are people who feel distracted in person and need the remote solitude or get drained from the commute.

ospzfmbbzr 4y ago
I don't think I'm missing the point... it's just that those seem like excuses and self-employed or self-directed workers are only making these excuses to themselves (as they fail). > This is coming from the narrow view that people who struggle remotely only do so because they are inexperienced. I know people who struggled because they lived in a small NYC apartment where their desk was 2 feet from their bed, and the lack of movement or change of environment was killer mentally. I know people who struggled because they are highly extroverted and not seeing people IRL led to crushing mental health issues. I know people who did not live up to their IRL potential because they thrive on watercooler chats for creativity. I know people who just felt disconnected remotely and didn't feel the purpose and connection to the team/company in person. I dealt with every one of these in varying degrees at one point or another. I still miss watercooler talk with interesting people but you can't have everything. If YOUR environment isn't conducive to getting work done -- fix it! - Inside too much? Get a dog or a hobby outside. (work is not a life) - Miss people? get a hobby where you meet people (work is not a life) - etc.. Who's responsibility is it to fix? YOURS (unless you want to fail but I guess at least you can blame someone else?) Now it's not easy to do these things... but nothing worthwhile is easy.
- mgfist 4y ago
  > If YOUR environment isn't conducive to getting work done -- fix it! You listed a bunch of ways one can do this. I'll list one more: going to work in-person! I think we're in agreement here: environment plays a huge role in productivity and one should make changes if an environment is not conducive to productivity. I posit that changing your working model to one that suits you is just as valid a change as getting a dog or hobby. Importantly, I don't mean to say that in-person is better than remote. Just saying that people have different preferences, and the fact that not all people excel in all environments doesn't make them inferior. You just need to have one environment that works well.
- Riverheart 4y ago
  > unless you want to fail Nobody wants to fail. Life is complicated. Maybe they tried and couldn't. Maybe they have obstacles we don't. We should be more empathetic. We don't know their stories.