4 ms·

> Not 9 years ago when the snowden/NSA revelations came out? What were you worried about looking up/messaging when those revelations came out?

belorn 4y ago
Any information that if taken out of context could cause damage in an unfair but technical legal court case, or the court of public opinion.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
So this just exposes the lie of "nothing to hide" for more people?
gruez 4y ago
Well, besides the obvious "suspicious search terms" (eg. anarchists cookbook), there was a general concern of the fact that the data collected might be used against be in some unknown way in the future (sort of like how posting stuff on social media might cause you to get canceled a decade down the line).
- karpierz 4y ago
  > there was a general concern of the fact that the data collected might be used against be in some unknown way in the future I think this is a reasonable concern. But I think this is where it differs from the concern people have with sharing abortion data. In the NSA case, the concern is in a possible future, the information they've gathered could be used against you in some way. In the current abortion data case, the concern is: 1. That there are states with laws on the books that would punish you if this information came to light. 2. There are companies with this information in hand that have no legal obligation to keep it private. 3. These companies refuse to make any sort of agreement or promise to keep this data away from those that would use it against you, or destroy the data. 4. These companies are within the legal jurisdiction of the aforementioned states. The threat here is much more concrete. Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying that the mass collection of data by the NSA is harmless. Rather, I understand why people are more concerned about the abortion data collection, because the threat is more concrete. The full consequence that NSA data collection poses haven't actualized, but depending on how things go, could be much, much worse than this.
car_analogy 4y ago
Well if you looked further than 2 feet ahead, you'd be worried about getting a secret personality and political profile assembled on you, that a subsequent administration (or anyone that hacks them, or does the same kind of data collection as the NSA/Google/Facebook/VISA/China [1]/..) could use to extra-legally exclude you from payment systems [2], services [3,4], government jobs [5], and.. Oh, wait, I said "further than 2 feet ahead", but this is already happening. Well it can always get worse, who knows how close towards China the US will move in the next few decades. Or maybe your political stance will continue to be so totally in-line with the establishment, that even living in a state-corporate panopticon, you will have nothing to worry about. The ideal citizen of the future. You saw the cage closing in around you, but thought "Why should I worry? I'm on good terms with the warden." [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/china-spent-years-collecting-americans-personal-information-u-s-just-n1134411 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/china-spent-years-coll... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chokepoint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chokepoint [3] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ahead-far-right-wing-rally-virginia-airbnb-cancels-accounts-n790716 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ahead-far-right-wing-ra... [4] https://www.foxnews.com/travel/airbnb-bans-white-supremacists-from-using-its-service-after-charlottesville-protest https://www.foxnews.com/travel/airbnb-bans-white-supremacist... [5] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/18/us/politics/military-capitol-riot-inauguration.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/18/us/politics/military-capi...
- pc86 4y ago
  All your cites are for white nationalism, which is by definition antithetical to a free American society. They also seem to be conflating actions taken by the government (2, 5) and operations taken by private companies (4). I'm also not sure what you mean by "extra-legally" in this context. "Extralegal" means not regulated or sanctioned by law. AirBnB banning people from its platform is certainly regulated - for example, you can't ban based on protected classes (of which being a white nationalist is not). Governmental hiring, military admissions, etc. are all clearly very regulated environments.
  - car_analogy 4y ago
    > All your cites are for white nationalism, which is by definition antithetical to a free American society What does operation Chokepoint or Chinese hacking have to do with white nationalism? And don't worry, they'll define every opinion they want to suppress as "antithetical to a free American society" - anti-immigration becomes white supremacy, anti-war becomes Muslim extremism/support of dictators, anti-factory-farming becomes eco-terrorism [1],... > conflating actions taken by the government and operations taken by private companies I'm not conflating anything. I'm listing the risks of surveillance - they are present in both the corporate and governmental spheres, not limited to only one or the other. [1] Supporters of ag-gag laws have argued that they serve to protect the agriculture industry from the negative repercussions of exposés by whistle blowers. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag
yodsanklai 4y ago
The exact same things as now. When information is collected, it's potentially available forever, to any future government (and hackers).
vorpalhex 4y ago
I'd be pretty concerned if I was a Muslim in the US or related to anyone in the wrong part of the world.
MadeThisToReply 4y ago
Privacy isn't the same thing as secrecy. I know what you're doing in the bathroom, but you still close the door.

belorn 4y ago

Any information that if taken out of context could cause damage in an unfair but technical legal court case, or the court of public opinion.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

So this just exposes the lie of "nothing to hide" for more people?

gruez 4y ago

Well, besides the obvious "suspicious search terms" (eg. anarchists cookbook), there was a general concern of the fact that the data collected might be used against be in some unknown way in the future (sort of like how posting stuff on social media might cause you to get canceled a decade down the line).

karpierz 4y ago
> there was a general concern of the fact that the data collected might be used against be in some unknown way in the future I think this is a reasonable concern. But I think this is where it differs from the concern people have with sharing abortion data. In the NSA case, the concern is in a possible future, the information they've gathered could be used against you in some way. In the current abortion data case, the concern is: 1. That there are states with laws on the books that would punish you if this information came to light. 2. There are companies with this information in hand that have no legal obligation to keep it private. 3. These companies refuse to make any sort of agreement or promise to keep this data away from those that would use it against you, or destroy the data. 4. These companies are within the legal jurisdiction of the aforementioned states. The threat here is much more concrete. Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying that the mass collection of data by the NSA is harmless. Rather, I understand why people are more concerned about the abortion data collection, because the threat is more concrete. The full consequence that NSA data collection poses haven't actualized, but depending on how things go, could be much, much worse than this.

car_analogy 4y ago

Well if you looked further than 2 feet ahead, you'd be worried about getting a secret personality and political profile assembled on you, that a subsequent administration (or anyone that hacks them, or does the same kind of data collection as the NSA/Google/Facebook/VISA/China [1]/..) could use to extra-legally exclude you from payment systems [2], services [3,4], government jobs [5], and.. Oh, wait, I said "further than 2 feet ahead", but this is already happening. Well it can always get worse, who knows how close towards China the US will move in the next few decades. Or maybe your political stance will continue to be so totally in-line with the establishment, that even living in a state-corporate panopticon, you will have nothing to worry about. The ideal citizen of the future. You saw the cage closing in around you, but thought "Why should I worry? I'm on good terms with the warden." [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/china-spent-years-collecting-americans-personal-information-u-s-just-n1134411 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/china-spent-years-coll... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chokepoint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chokepoint [3] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ahead-far-right-wing-rally-virginia-airbnb-cancels-accounts-n790716 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ahead-far-right-wing-ra... [4] https://www.foxnews.com/travel/airbnb-bans-white-supremacists-from-using-its-service-after-charlottesville-protest https://www.foxnews.com/travel/airbnb-bans-white-supremacist... [5] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/18/us/politics/military-capitol-riot-inauguration.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/18/us/politics/military-capi...

pc86 4y ago
All your cites are for white nationalism, which is by definition antithetical to a free American society. They also seem to be conflating actions taken by the government (2, 5) and operations taken by private companies (4). I'm also not sure what you mean by "extra-legally" in this context. "Extralegal" means not regulated or sanctioned by law. AirBnB banning people from its platform is certainly regulated - for example, you can't ban based on protected classes (of which being a white nationalist is not). Governmental hiring, military admissions, etc. are all clearly very regulated environments.
- car_analogy 4y ago
  > All your cites are for white nationalism, which is by definition antithetical to a free American society What does operation Chokepoint or Chinese hacking have to do with white nationalism? And don't worry, they'll define every opinion they want to suppress as "antithetical to a free American society" - anti-immigration becomes white supremacy, anti-war becomes Muslim extremism/support of dictators, anti-factory-farming becomes eco-terrorism [1],... > conflating actions taken by the government and operations taken by private companies I'm not conflating anything. I'm listing the risks of surveillance - they are present in both the corporate and governmental spheres, not limited to only one or the other. [1] Supporters of ag-gag laws have argued that they serve to protect the agriculture industry from the negative repercussions of exposés by whistle blowers. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag

yodsanklai 4y ago

The exact same things as now. When information is collected, it's potentially available forever, to any future government (and hackers).

vorpalhex 4y ago

I'd be pretty concerned if I was a Muslim in the US or related to anyone in the wrong part of the world.

MadeThisToReply 4y ago

Privacy isn't the same thing as secrecy. I know what you're doing in the bathroom, but you still close the door.