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I agree, and have to wonder what would happen if pre-remote some researcher tried to break it down to 'Computer Science Graduate' and 'Taught themselves on Code

by shmatt 4y ago

I agree, and have to wonder what would happen if pre-remote some researcher tried to break it down to 'Computer Science Graduate' and 'Taught themselves on CodeAcademy' I would bet the CS graduate is having a much easier time self-learning at home than the no-degree person who usually stops peoples work 12-15 times a day to get them to explain concepts or show them around the code, again...

Macha 4y ago
Huh, I'd expect the self taught person to be more capable of teaching themselves the codebase than the CS grad, especially once you get into companies doing bog standard CRUD API + SPA webapp for a SaaS. It's the new grads from courses that are theory heavy and practice light that expect a lecturer or tutor to guide them through the whole process in my experience.
- shmatt 4y ago
  From personal experience only: Self taught people (Bootcamps are included here) are self taught to perform in the very specific tool-heavy world. Think Create React App + AWS. It's harder for them to independently understand bigger decisions/system design/building something from the ground up CS grads know how to study, know when they are really stuck, and know what the good questions to ask when stuck are. They were thrown into this impossible course work and survived, they're better at studying complex systems, and to clearly define what exactly they do and dont understand Bootcamp grads? they just need you to share a code snippet of exactly what you asked them to do in a different place in the codebase You could explain 10 times why you chose to build the new microservices in Clojure and they still won't get it People mistake self taught with understands complex software problems. Usually from what i've worked with, self taught is self taught to copy paste some commands into npm
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Then their university/college has failed them. Learning how to think/learn/work independently should be the primary goal of tertiary education. It almost doesn't matter too much what your degree was in.
guitarbill 4y ago
Sure, or more likely having a CS degree or not does not strongly correlate with programming skill or software development skill. Some people are good at programming, and do a CS degree to expand their capabilities. Some people do a CS degree solely for the career options (which to be clear is not necessarily bad). Some people didn't do CS degrees for whatever reason, but have thousands of hours in codebases, and know when to look up an algorithm or data structure.
prepend 4y ago
> I would bet the CS graduate is having a much easier time self-learning at home than the no-degree person who usually stops peoples work 12-15 times a day to get them to explain concepts or show them around the code, again... I am a self taught and am pretty good at looking stuff up and figuring it out on my own, especially stuff that isn’t even in a manual. I figured this was pretty common since self taught is sort of forced to develop this skill.

by shmatt 4y ago

Macha 4y ago

Huh, I'd expect the self taught person to be more capable of teaching themselves the codebase than the CS grad, especially once you get into companies doing bog standard CRUD API + SPA webapp for a SaaS. It's the new grads from courses that are theory heavy and practice light that expect a lecturer or tutor to guide them through the whole process in my experience.

shmatt 4y ago
From personal experience only: Self taught people (Bootcamps are included here) are self taught to perform in the very specific tool-heavy world. Think Create React App + AWS. It's harder for them to independently understand bigger decisions/system design/building something from the ground up CS grads know how to study, know when they are really stuck, and know what the good questions to ask when stuck are. They were thrown into this impossible course work and survived, they're better at studying complex systems, and to clearly define what exactly they do and dont understand Bootcamp grads? they just need you to share a code snippet of exactly what you asked them to do in a different place in the codebase You could explain 10 times why you chose to build the new microservices in Clojure and they still won't get it People mistake self taught with understands complex software problems. Usually from what i've worked with, self taught is self taught to copy paste some commands into npm
wizofaus 4y ago
Then their university/college has failed them. Learning how to think/learn/work independently should be the primary goal of tertiary education. It almost doesn't matter too much what your degree was in.

guitarbill 4y ago

Sure, or more likely having a CS degree or not does not strongly correlate with programming skill or software development skill. Some people are good at programming, and do a CS degree to expand their capabilities. Some people do a CS degree solely for the career options (which to be clear is not necessarily bad). Some people didn't do CS degrees for whatever reason, but have thousands of hours in codebases, and know when to look up an algorithm or data structure.

prepend 4y ago

> I would bet the CS graduate is having a much easier time self-learning at home than the no-degree person who usually stops peoples work 12-15 times a day to get them to explain concepts or show them around the code, again... I am a self taught and am pretty good at looking stuff up and figuring it out on my own, especially stuff that isn’t even in a manual. I figured this was pretty common since self taught is sort of forced to develop this skill.