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I don't disagree that it's more difficult for some people than for others, but ultimately it's as simple as calories in < calories out. Multivitamins are cheap,

I don't disagree that it's more difficult for some people than for others, but ultimately it's as simple as calories in < calories out. Multivitamins are cheap, rice and beans are cheap, frozen veggies are (usually) cheap. In a lot of cases a truly healthy diet is cheaper than the tasty but atrociously unhealthy "cheap" foods. Yes, you do sacrifice some variety and flavor, but it's more than doable. The world isn't fair. That sucks, and I'm all for working to change that, but until that change comes we have to accept it for what it is. If you throw your hands up and don't challenge anything because you were born with a disadvantage then you're only contributing to the issue. It's much easier to throw your hands up when you're told over and over again that it's not your fault and is all the cause of immutable externalities. I don't think it's wrong to point out potential related factors but it is wrong to shift any of the blame to those factors, thereby removing it from oneself.

selfhoster11 4y ago
> I don't think it's wrong to point out potential related factors but it is wrong to shift any of the blame to those factors, thereby removing it from oneself. Blame is not all or nothing. IMO it's more than fair to place some blame on the person, and some blame on the current food production and distribution system that makes it an uphill battle to recover from being overweight. Because they are both to blame. > The world isn't fair. That sucks, and I'm all for working to change that, but until that change comes we have to accept it for what it is. I accept that. But shrugging and saying "it is what it is, cope or die because that's how the world works", while truthful, is not very compassionate or helpful. People with issues like this should receive help as a matter of course (if for no other reason, then to reduce public healthcare expenses and keep them alive for longer to pay taxes). Just like most developed countries have food safety regulations, perhaps it's time to start thinking about systemic solutions to what is partially a systemic problem.
tzs 4y ago
> I don't disagree that it's more difficult for some people than for others, but ultimately it's as simple as calories in < calories out. It's only simple if you only care about weight. If you care about both reaching a desired target weight and remaining healthy it is no longer simple. The path you take to the target weight matters a lot. Nova on PBS had a good episode on the science of this in 2020 called "The Truth About Fat". It's currently not free except to people who are members of their local PBS station, but it is worth keeping an eye out for when it becomes free. (Episodes tend to be free for a while after broadcast, then become member-only for a while, and then it varies).
antiterra 4y ago
> It's much easier to throw your hands up when you're told over and over again that it's not your fault and is all the cause of immutable externalities. No, it's not. There's nothing about recognizing a challenge that says that you cannot keep trying to overcome it. It's just as easy to throw your hands up when someone is unsympathetic and calls people who have compassion 'SJWs' and you are buried in shame. For some people, yes, some amount of shame can be a motivator. For others it works the opposite way and results in a vicious cycle of self-treatment for depression with food. Poor mental health can be a much more pressing and existential threat than being overweight. Listen. We know for sure that the gut biome can trigger the release of neurotransmitters via the vast cluster of neurons in the digestive system. That is: bacteria in your gut can directly affect your mood if you don't eat the food they want you to eat. Like it or not, we are electrochemical machines, not little ghosts piloting spaceships. I have a friend who is a healthy weight, has a flat stomach and is regarded as very attractive. She eats the absolute worst food: hot pockets, pizza rolls and candy. But, in public, no one assumes she eats junk food. No one tells her to lose weight or to eat less. No one makes a disgusted face at her if she goes to the gym. On the other hand, imagine someone obese eating at McDonalds once a week while still maintaining a calorie deficit for the day. What kind of looks, assumptions and comments do you think that person will get when they are eating fries? Do you think that is motivating? Do you think people who want you to treat that person as a human are SJWs? Why is SJW an insult to you anyway? Because people care about other people too much? Because you doubt the sincerity of people who publicly make an effort?

selfhoster11 4y ago

> I don't think it's wrong to point out potential related factors but it is wrong to shift any of the blame to those factors, thereby removing it from oneself. Blame is not all or nothing. IMO it's more than fair to place some blame on the person, and some blame on the current food production and distribution system that makes it an uphill battle to recover from being overweight. Because they are both to blame. > The world isn't fair. That sucks, and I'm all for working to change that, but until that change comes we have to accept it for what it is. I accept that. But shrugging and saying "it is what it is, cope or die because that's how the world works", while truthful, is not very compassionate or helpful. People with issues like this should receive help as a matter of course (if for no other reason, then to reduce public healthcare expenses and keep them alive for longer to pay taxes). Just like most developed countries have food safety regulations, perhaps it's time to start thinking about systemic solutions to what is partially a systemic problem.

tzs 4y ago

> I don't disagree that it's more difficult for some people than for others, but ultimately it's as simple as calories in < calories out. It's only simple if you only care about weight. If you care about both reaching a desired target weight and remaining healthy it is no longer simple. The path you take to the target weight matters a lot. Nova on PBS had a good episode on the science of this in 2020 called "The Truth About Fat". It's currently not free except to people who are members of their local PBS station, but it is worth keeping an eye out for when it becomes free. (Episodes tend to be free for a while after broadcast, then become member-only for a while, and then it varies).

antiterra 4y ago

> It's much easier to throw your hands up when you're told over and over again that it's not your fault and is all the cause of immutable externalities. No, it's not. There's nothing about recognizing a challenge that says that you cannot keep trying to overcome it. It's just as easy to throw your hands up when someone is unsympathetic and calls people who have compassion 'SJWs' and you are buried in shame. For some people, yes, some amount of shame can be a motivator. For others it works the opposite way and results in a vicious cycle of self-treatment for depression with food. Poor mental health can be a much more pressing and existential threat than being overweight. Listen. We know for sure that the gut biome can trigger the release of neurotransmitters via the vast cluster of neurons in the digestive system. That is: bacteria in your gut can directly affect your mood if you don't eat the food they want you to eat. Like it or not, we are electrochemical machines, not little ghosts piloting spaceships. I have a friend who is a healthy weight, has a flat stomach and is regarded as very attractive. She eats the absolute worst food: hot pockets, pizza rolls and candy. But, in public, no one assumes she eats junk food. No one tells her to lose weight or to eat less. No one makes a disgusted face at her if she goes to the gym. On the other hand, imagine someone obese eating at McDonalds once a week while still maintaining a calorie deficit for the day. What kind of looks, assumptions and comments do you think that person will get when they are eating fries? Do you think that is motivating? Do you think people who want you to treat that person as a human are SJWs? Why is SJW an insult to you anyway? Because people care about other people too much? Because you doubt the sincerity of people who publicly make an effort?