4 ms·

I have to say, I don't agree that any of the items you point out as clichés are really clichés. A cop's wife cheating on her husband with a "loser" is a cliché?

I have to say, I don't agree that any of the items you point out as clichés are really clichés. A cop's wife cheating on her husband with a "loser" is a cliché? Are you sure you know what a cliché even is? Loose morals are a cliché? One wife of one of the gangsters in the movie is obsessed with family, aren't some people out of most people you meet obsessed with family? That's kind of a normal thing. I would say, when compared to most action/suspense/thriller movies, Heat is one of the all-time greatest mostly because it defies most of the genre conventions. When I saw Heat, it amazed me because even 20 years later, it still seems incredibly fresh and original and unlike 99% of other movies of the same genre. Heat is incredibly realistic, there are no out and out "pure" good guys or "pure" bad guys, very much like reality, everything is shades of grey. There is no winner in the story nor solely happy or bad ending, and the mechanics of the story both on the cops and robbers side is strongly grounded in reality and indeed based on real life stories from the police. The cast was extremely well trained by people experienced on both the "bad guy" side and the "good guy" side. The gunplay and heists are also extremely realistic, to the point that many elite armed forces use the gunplay and tactics in heat as training tools!

bambax 4y ago
> That's kind of a normal thing. Yeah, sure, "normal", therefore cliché. Soccer moms are the bane of the movies. Just because you place a soccer mom in a gangster flick doesn't make it original, or courageous, or anything. It's boring and ridiculous. Also, as a moviegoer, I really don't care how long the actors trained, how well, or by whom they were trained. I care about the result. The result is a bunch of loud fighting, with boring and predictable domestic scenes in between. It glorifies violence and doesn't even do it well.
- saberience 4y ago
  You're misinformed as the meaning of the word cliché, if that's your definition. Cliché != normal. Heat has a variety of different people with different families and different situations, it's realistic, it's not clichéd. Cliché implies an overused trope, especially one which is heavily featured or relied upon as a major element of the story. This "soccer mom" element (which I don't agree with to start with) is a very minor side aspect barely featuring for 1 or 2 minutes in the movie. The fact that you obsess over it so much is frankly weird to me. Also, movie critics highly disagree with you and consider Heat to be one of the best crime/thrillers ever made, original, fresh, not clichéd, and the movie which every crime thriller which came after aspired to be.
  - bambax 4y ago
    Yes, cliché implies an overused trope; in Heat, all the female characters are clichés; most of the male characters are too (the main two, the exhausted but determined cop, and the super-pro bank robber, certainly are); and so are the situations and plot developments. The "one-last-big-score-that-goes-wrong" is so cliché it should be legislated against. Everything in that movie is utterly predictable. As for movie critics, I'd rather form my own opinion than follow those of people who's profession is to sit in cinemas without even paying for their own tickets. But, while you're right that most reviews of Heat are very positive, there are plenty of critics who thought that movie was boring and cliché. Here's one for instance: https://www.reelviews.net/reelviews/heat https://www.reelviews.net/reelviews/heat "all the character-building information is cliched and uninteresting" "About forty minutes of Heat is involving. The rest varies from humdrum to tedious. That's not a very good success rate." "the long stretches of banal dialogue and formula plotting mute the impact of the staccato, bullet-laden bursts of energy" None of this matters much, of course. I would feel the same if there were zero negative reviews. I think we should agree to disagree.

bambax 4y ago

> That's kind of a normal thing. Yeah, sure, "normal", therefore cliché. Soccer moms are the bane of the movies. Just because you place a soccer mom in a gangster flick doesn't make it original, or courageous, or anything. It's boring and ridiculous. Also, as a moviegoer, I really don't care how long the actors trained, how well, or by whom they were trained. I care about the result. The result is a bunch of loud fighting, with boring and predictable domestic scenes in between. It glorifies violence and doesn't even do it well.

saberience 4y ago
You're misinformed as the meaning of the word cliché, if that's your definition. Cliché != normal. Heat has a variety of different people with different families and different situations, it's realistic, it's not clichéd. Cliché implies an overused trope, especially one which is heavily featured or relied upon as a major element of the story. This "soccer mom" element (which I don't agree with to start with) is a very minor side aspect barely featuring for 1 or 2 minutes in the movie. The fact that you obsess over it so much is frankly weird to me. Also, movie critics highly disagree with you and consider Heat to be one of the best crime/thrillers ever made, original, fresh, not clichéd, and the movie which every crime thriller which came after aspired to be.
- bambax 4y ago
  Yes, cliché implies an overused trope; in Heat, all the female characters are clichés; most of the male characters are too (the main two, the exhausted but determined cop, and the super-pro bank robber, certainly are); and so are the situations and plot developments. The "one-last-big-score-that-goes-wrong" is so cliché it should be legislated against. Everything in that movie is utterly predictable. As for movie critics, I'd rather form my own opinion than follow those of people who's profession is to sit in cinemas without even paying for their own tickets. But, while you're right that most reviews of Heat are very positive, there are plenty of critics who thought that movie was boring and cliché. Here's one for instance: https://www.reelviews.net/reelviews/heat https://www.reelviews.net/reelviews/heat "all the character-building information is cliched and uninteresting" "About forty minutes of Heat is involving. The rest varies from humdrum to tedious. That's not a very good success rate." "the long stretches of banal dialogue and formula plotting mute the impact of the staccato, bullet-laden bursts of energy" None of this matters much, of course. I would feel the same if there were zero negative reviews. I think we should agree to disagree.