3 ms·

And that's great until you have three-ish "lowest-level" product teams and they're all managing not only their own production systems, but their own deployments

by ezrast 4y ago

And that's great until you have three-ish "lowest-level" product teams and they're all managing not only their own production systems, but their own deployments and testing pipelines and monitoring stacks and secrets management. At some point, you need to start unifying that stuff to keep things manageable, and if those systems are everyone's responsibility, they're no one's. So you make another team for whom the internal shared infrastructure is the product, and the rest of engineering are the customers - they still write their own Terraform modules and whatnot, but they run them on DevOps-supplied platforms. That seems to be what modern DevOps is becoming.

pas 4y ago
these are not mutually exclusive. if those product teams are under one big umbrella then nothing stops the one holding the umbrella (C-level or whoever) to set the standard. you can use these languages, these CI tools, these package repositories, etc. if you need something exceptional ask. the important aspect is that there should be enough working knowledge about these tools/processes/systems in those teams that they can work efficiently, and they can respond as the whole business evolves. (eg. scale up/down, extract and hand over or accept and integrate components, integrate other APIs, etc) > and if those systems are everyone's responsibility, they're no one's. again, there's a cut off eventually. for example many companies just use GitLab for CI. at that point it's up to the big umbrella to decide whether they want to be in one or many GL orgs. > That seems to be what modern DevOps is becoming. sure, but that cutoff seems to be infrastructure vs product. which seems a bit more healthier than cutting the software lifecycle in half.
citrin_ru 4y ago
One can have both - team(s) which own shared infra like k8s, monitoring servers, CI/CD servers e. t. c. and ops embedded into development teams.

by ezrast 4y ago

pas 4y ago

these are not mutually exclusive. if those product teams are under one big umbrella then nothing stops the one holding the umbrella (C-level or whoever) to set the standard. you can use these languages, these CI tools, these package repositories, etc. if you need something exceptional ask. the important aspect is that there should be enough working knowledge about these tools/processes/systems in those teams that they can work efficiently, and they can respond as the whole business evolves. (eg. scale up/down, extract and hand over or accept and integrate components, integrate other APIs, etc) > and if those systems are everyone's responsibility, they're no one's. again, there's a cut off eventually. for example many companies just use GitLab for CI. at that point it's up to the big umbrella to decide whether they want to be in one or many GL orgs. > That seems to be what modern DevOps is becoming. sure, but that cutoff seems to be infrastructure vs product. which seems a bit more healthier than cutting the software lifecycle in half.

citrin_ru 4y ago

One can have both - team(s) which own shared infra like k8s, monitoring servers, CI/CD servers e. t. c. and ops embedded into development teams.