4 ms·

> a community full of racist, sexist, xenophobic, and hateful speech Rookie mistake: Taking that sea of piss seriously. I'm not even sure if /pol/ is not alre

> a community full of racist, sexist, xenophobic, and hateful speech Rookie mistake: Taking that sea of piss seriously. I'm not even sure if /pol/ is not already AI-generated nonsense.

Akronymus 4y ago
Funnily enough, you can have pretty decent discussions on pol about economy and such. Sure, there will be lots of shit flung at everyone, but as long as you don't take the bait seriously, its gonna be fine. Better than other forums, even, as you can honestly debate it without fearing that you are stepping on anyones toes.
- cowtools 4y ago
  sure, unless you happen to step on anyone's pet theory about the jews/illuminati that apparently control the world.
  - Akronymus 4y ago
    I didn't say you wouldn't ever step on someones toes. Just that you don't have to care about it. Let the other person rant and rave and realize you aren't beholden to that person.
krapp 4y ago
Are people really still taking the line that 4chan is nothing but edgy teenagers, memes and lulz, and that the straight world just doesn't get the irony? Christ, the copium of 4chan fans is even more potent than Trump supporters.
- blueflow 4y ago
  Its worrisome that some people are living in such comfortable, safe environment that they get away with not ever having to learn to shrug off such nonsense. Stop taking 4chan seriously. If you let yourself be enraged by their words, that's exactly what they want, and it means suffering for you. Never, ever show you are vulnerable to this. Do not feed the trolls.
  - rini17 4y ago
    So for you it's only "lighthearted trolling" without any influence in meatspace whatsoever? What has to happen to convince you otherwise?
    - blueflow 4y ago
      > without any influence in meatspace whatsoever Why do you think meatspace is any better to begin with? Is it just you? 4chan is an online reflection of what always has been there.
      - rini17 4y ago
        What thing similar to /pol/ was always been there, can you name an example please?
        blueflow 4y ago
        Working-class people / blue-collars.
        rini17 4y ago
        Did they have communities like that?
        blueflow 4y ago
        They are like that at work. No special "communities" or circles necessary.
        rini17 4y ago
        I as not asking about individuals. Do you have examples like qanon conspiracy or capitol insurrection that were organized by blue collars at work?
- unconed 4y ago
  If you applied the same standard of guilt by association that the post is invoking to other fora, there would be little left. A is "linked to" B. A "perpetuates" B. A is "known to influence" B. These are all weasel words meant to hide the fact that there is no actual consistent objection. Usually there are plenty of other, similar examples to be named, with the salient difference only being whether OP feels the site is on their side and whether they can have influence over it or not. The objection with 4chan has always been that it is unbashfully tolerant to the right wing, which is why it is considered a high crime by some to associate with it. When doxing and incitement is in service of left wing goals instead, such objections evaporate like snow, and even major news outlets and papers happily indulge. Even the charge of "copium" is shameless projection, and the common response of accusing critics of "whataboutism" is typically meant to deflect that there is no salient difference between two similar situations, and no underlying principle guiding the value judgement being made, other than partisanship masquerading as empathy. 4chan's influence is an order of magnitude less than YouTube, TikTok, Reddit, etc. In Reddit's case in particular, it is easy to observe that major subreddits are ideologically captured and that the site is unrecognizable to those who remember its early days. By and large, this is allowed and encouraged. Under such hypocrisy, these progressive objections cannot be taken seriously.
lifthrasiir 4y ago
> I'm not even sure if /pol/ is not already AI-generated nonsense. I think this was indeed one of the intents, since the author fed GPT-4chan outputs back into /pol/ as an experiment. But publishing the model is another matter.
- blueflow 4y ago
  I think this is the first time botposting got public.
praptak 4y ago
4chan is light years beyond the point where people just posted "Hitler did nothing wrong" to piss off the righteous. People acting like hateful idiots for fun eventually brought actual hateful idiots. This brought people who like to spread their ideas to actual hateful idiots.
- blueflow 4y ago
  Convince me you are not just othering them.
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  Responsibility to the responsible. There's no difference between idiots in churches and idiots on 4chan - both are idiots, both eat up whatever bullcrap is served to them, and both are harmful to society. And neither means that churches or 4chan are bad in themselves. We must be careful before starting to excuse idiots for their idiotic behavior based on "bad influence". Society is a complex mechanism, and censorship inevitably brings unforseen consequences. Human mind is also complex, and anti-social behavior can sometimes be traced back to early-childhood traumas. Does that mean we should ban free parenting and raise infants in government-approved facilities?
  - praptak 4y ago
    Umm, false dichotomy? Blame the medium, blame the idiots - these are not mutually exclusive. Also, there's a huge gap between supporting censorship and condemning those who amplify harmful messages.
    - paskozdilar 4y ago
      Why should people posting somewhere be responsible for actions of other people reading their posts?
      - praptak 4y ago
        Same reason you are responsible for shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. Because they know the other people will act on it.
GuB-42 4y ago
I mostly think of 4chan as an outlet, a place where you can show your worst with limited consequences because no one takes it seriously. Like a violent video game, or playing chaotic evil in D&D. There are a few psychopaths who take 4chan seriously, just like there are psychopaths who think it is ok to play a D&D character in real life. But should we ban D&D just because of an extreme minority? People back in the day thought so, not so much anymore, because they now understand that it is just a game. I base my experience on /b/, I don't know much about /pol/ but /b/ certainly was hateful, and it was fun, I got bored of it, and in the meantime, I don't think it affected me much, and neither did the many people I know who did the same. There was some really bad things happening on 4chan. Like doxing or raids, but a bot won't do that, at least no more that more politically correct bots like GPT-3 (yep, GPT-3 can dox you!). In fact, it is more likely to disrupt the efforts by drowning the conversation in a flurry of vulgarity.
- Akronymus 4y ago
  I think you could enjoy /g/ and /sci/

> a community full of racist, sexist, xenophobic, and hateful speech Rookie mistake: Taking that sea of piss seriously. I'm not even sure if /pol/ is not already AI-generated nonsense.

Akronymus 4y ago

Funnily enough, you can have pretty decent discussions on pol about economy and such. Sure, there will be lots of shit flung at everyone, but as long as you don't take the bait seriously, its gonna be fine. Better than other forums, even, as you can honestly debate it without fearing that you are stepping on anyones toes.

cowtools 4y ago
sure, unless you happen to step on anyone's pet theory about the jews/illuminati that apparently control the world.
- Akronymus 4y ago
  I didn't say you wouldn't ever step on someones toes. Just that you don't have to care about it. Let the other person rant and rave and realize you aren't beholden to that person.

krapp 4y ago

Are people really still taking the line that 4chan is nothing but edgy teenagers, memes and lulz, and that the straight world just doesn't get the irony? Christ, the copium of 4chan fans is even more potent than Trump supporters.

blueflow 4y ago
Its worrisome that some people are living in such comfortable, safe environment that they get away with not ever having to learn to shrug off such nonsense. Stop taking 4chan seriously. If you let yourself be enraged by their words, that's exactly what they want, and it means suffering for you. Never, ever show you are vulnerable to this. Do not feed the trolls.
- rini17 4y ago
  So for you it's only "lighthearted trolling" without any influence in meatspace whatsoever? What has to happen to convince you otherwise?
  - blueflow 4y ago
    > without any influence in meatspace whatsoever Why do you think meatspace is any better to begin with? Is it just you? 4chan is an online reflection of what always has been there.
    - rini17 4y ago
      What thing similar to /pol/ was always been there, can you name an example please?
      - blueflow 4y ago
        Working-class people / blue-collars.
        rini17 4y ago
        Did they have communities like that?
        blueflow 4y ago
        They are like that at work. No special "communities" or circles necessary.
        rini17 4y ago
        I as not asking about individuals. Do you have examples like qanon conspiracy or capitol insurrection that were organized by blue collars at work?
unconed 4y ago
If you applied the same standard of guilt by association that the post is invoking to other fora, there would be little left. A is "linked to" B. A "perpetuates" B. A is "known to influence" B. These are all weasel words meant to hide the fact that there is no actual consistent objection. Usually there are plenty of other, similar examples to be named, with the salient difference only being whether OP feels the site is on their side and whether they can have influence over it or not. The objection with 4chan has always been that it is unbashfully tolerant to the right wing, which is why it is considered a high crime by some to associate with it. When doxing and incitement is in service of left wing goals instead, such objections evaporate like snow, and even major news outlets and papers happily indulge. Even the charge of "copium" is shameless projection, and the common response of accusing critics of "whataboutism" is typically meant to deflect that there is no salient difference between two similar situations, and no underlying principle guiding the value judgement being made, other than partisanship masquerading as empathy. 4chan's influence is an order of magnitude less than YouTube, TikTok, Reddit, etc. In Reddit's case in particular, it is easy to observe that major subreddits are ideologically captured and that the site is unrecognizable to those who remember its early days. By and large, this is allowed and encouraged. Under such hypocrisy, these progressive objections cannot be taken seriously.

lifthrasiir 4y ago

> I'm not even sure if /pol/ is not already AI-generated nonsense. I think this was indeed one of the intents, since the author fed GPT-4chan outputs back into /pol/ as an experiment. But publishing the model is another matter.

blueflow 4y ago
I think this is the first time botposting got public.

praptak 4y ago

4chan is light years beyond the point where people just posted "Hitler did nothing wrong" to piss off the righteous. People acting like hateful idiots for fun eventually brought actual hateful idiots. This brought people who like to spread their ideas to actual hateful idiots.

blueflow 4y ago
Convince me you are not just othering them.
paskozdilar 4y ago
Responsibility to the responsible. There's no difference between idiots in churches and idiots on 4chan - both are idiots, both eat up whatever bullcrap is served to them, and both are harmful to society. And neither means that churches or 4chan are bad in themselves. We must be careful before starting to excuse idiots for their idiotic behavior based on "bad influence". Society is a complex mechanism, and censorship inevitably brings unforseen consequences. Human mind is also complex, and anti-social behavior can sometimes be traced back to early-childhood traumas. Does that mean we should ban free parenting and raise infants in government-approved facilities?
- praptak 4y ago
  Umm, false dichotomy? Blame the medium, blame the idiots - these are not mutually exclusive. Also, there's a huge gap between supporting censorship and condemning those who amplify harmful messages.
  - paskozdilar 4y ago
    Why should people posting somewhere be responsible for actions of other people reading their posts?
    - praptak 4y ago
      Same reason you are responsible for shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. Because they know the other people will act on it.

GuB-42 4y ago

I mostly think of 4chan as an outlet, a place where you can show your worst with limited consequences because no one takes it seriously. Like a violent video game, or playing chaotic evil in D&D. There are a few psychopaths who take 4chan seriously, just like there are psychopaths who think it is ok to play a D&D character in real life. But should we ban D&D just because of an extreme minority? People back in the day thought so, not so much anymore, because they now understand that it is just a game. I base my experience on /b/, I don't know much about /pol/ but /b/ certainly was hateful, and it was fun, I got bored of it, and in the meantime, I don't think it affected me much, and neither did the many people I know who did the same. There was some really bad things happening on 4chan. Like doxing or raids, but a bot won't do that, at least no more that more politically correct bots like GPT-3 (yep, GPT-3 can dox you!). In fact, it is more likely to disrupt the efforts by drowning the conversation in a flurry of vulgarity.

Akronymus 4y ago
I think you could enjoy /g/ and /sci/