4 ms·

Fuck You: A Magazine of the Arts (1962-1965)

87 points by thomassmith65 4y ago

lastdong 4y ago
Somewhat related: Ubu web is so great! Some hidden gems, interviews, clips, I mean look at the names on this list https://www.ubu.com/film/index.html https://www.ubu.com/film/index.html
thomassmith65 4y ago
For the record, I posted this without the full expletive* in the title. It looks like dang edited it back in. * I dashed the two middle letters, but in retrospect, a wittier work-safe title would be "Gutter Expletive: A Magazine of the Arts (1962-1965)" which echoes Ed Sanders' choice of words https://youtu.be/BYgv7ur8ipg https://youtu.be/BYgv7ur8ipg
- metadat 4y ago
  There's nothing wrong with preserving the work FUCK. This isn't a YouTube channel channel for infants, censorship is not needed.
  - boxmonster 4y ago
    I say, bloody well said Smedley
  - thomassmith65 4y ago
    The magazine was created to shock the public, but I posted it because I think it is interesting as a historical artifact. In 2022, nobody is likely to call the police over the four letter words, but some people still find naughty language obnoxious. There's a line I love in a book review by George Orwell: "When I first opened Tropic of Cancer and saw that it was full of unprintable words, my immediate reaction was a refusal to be impressed." My self-censorship of the title was also an attempt, and maybe a misguided one, to signal that my posting the link is not some feckless attempt at being edgy.
    - mdp2021 4y ago
      I find it delightful that you call "naughty" (ex 'naught') expletives, which are born for expressing drastic positivity.
    - mdp2021 4y ago
      > my immediate reaction was a refusal to be impressed Do not get confused: of course in front of the sensational you will oppose "a refusal to be impressed". But you are supposed, as an adequately mature individual, to have well developed filters¹ - exercised since day one of the spark of insight. We cannot assume that you use language sensationally, childishly. It cannot be the default. ¹Edit: I replaced with 'filters' the formerly used 'control', which may sound too active (there is of course no need for active contrast, against common agents, in the mature individual).
  - bergenty 4y ago
    It’s not censorship, it suggests a moral framework and a reluctance to be too forward. These are good things.
    - metadat 4y ago
      Is using "curse words" supposed to be immoral now? Shit..
      - bergenty 4y ago
        It’s not that, it’s an attempt to appear genteel or not appear crude. No one is seriously offended by curse words but making an attempt to not throw those out exhibits control. That is desirable.
    - exogeny 4y ago
      Fuck that.
    - mdp2021 4y ago
      Which moral framework would disregard "distance"?
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    > This is not a... channel for infants Very well said, because this is why some of us are here.
- wccrawford 4y ago
  Never stop doing what you think is good when it's not hurting anyone. Don't take these downvotes as a sign that you need to change. It's okay to be kind, even if people don't want it.
  - thomassmith65 4y ago
    Thanks, I agree! There's no worries around my taking criticism in this thread overly personally. It's natural for people to have strong opinions about censorship in general, and I don't think anyone here means to imply that the title of this one post is a matter of dire importance in the grand scheme of things :)
- deltarholamda 4y ago
  You were correct to edit it out, and dang was correct to edit it back in.
8bitsrule 4y ago
Though I've run across many of the early 'underground press' instances, e.g.[0][1] I've not seen much of the mimeo'd stuff (esp. from NYC) which predated it - so thanks for pointing it out! Def. an immediate forerunner. [0] https://soapboxie.com/activism/The-East-Village-Other-Overview-of-an-60s-Underground-Newspaper https://soapboxie.com/activism/The-East-Village-Other-Overvi... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Tribe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Tribe
nonrandomstring 4y ago
I was reading about Oz magazine recently and wondering about the different ways that "authorities" deal with underground publications. Original hacker zines, Phrack, 2600 and the like were born within a very liberal and wild internet. We've lost something today with web, because locality and DNS makes for fragility and easy censorship.
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  It's hard to stay a virgin when everyone wants to be a unicorn.
- kradeelav 4y ago
  Would be really curious to hear your thoughts on the censorship of underground zines. :o I find that a lot of kink art creatives run into similar problems with being deplatformed on social media, but there's a growing segment that's thriving on personal sites and webrings, ditto with similar topics to the old hacker zines.
  - egypturnash 4y ago
    Don’t forget the constant cycle of “payment service starts up to service horny creators, payment service prospers, payment service gets big enough for Visa/MC to notice that it’s doing porn, payment service suddenly starts kicking off large swathes of the creators it helped”. OnlyFans is the latest in a long line of this.
  - dfxm12 4y ago
    In meatspace, underground zines wouldn't be in Barnes & Nobel, they'd be in the independent book store or record shop. Mainstream shops never let just any material be sold (especially when they were leading the market compared to Amazon). So, is content really "underground" if it's on a social media site like Tumbler, FB/IG, etc.? "Underground" implies distribution via alternative channels, and in 2022, webrings are alternative (compared to mainstream social media sites).
  - nonrandomstring 4y ago
lofatdairy 4y ago
If I'm not mistaken this magazine is nearly solely responsible for Ezra Pound finishing his famous Cantos[^1]. They circulated some bootleg copies of the final Cantos before Pound finished them, and I believe his publisher encouraged him just to submit his work in more of a draft state. Admittedly, I haven't made time to study the Cantos, and the history is full of additional people into which I haven't looked too deeply. But might be of interest to any poetry fans on this forum. [^1]: https://realitystudio.org/bibliographic-bunker/fuck-you-press-archive/the-fuck-you-press-cantos-a-census/ https://realitystudio.org/bibliographic-bunker/fuck-you-pres...

87 points by thomassmith65 4y ago

Somewhat related: Ubu web is so great! Some hidden gems, interviews, clips, I mean look at the names on this list https://www.ubu.com/film/index.html https://www.ubu.com/film/index.html

thomassmith65 4y ago

For the record, I posted this without the full expletive* in the title. It looks like dang edited it back in. * I dashed the two middle letters, but in retrospect, a wittier work-safe title would be "Gutter Expletive: A Magazine of the Arts (1962-1965)" which echoes Ed Sanders' choice of words https://youtu.be/BYgv7ur8ipg https://youtu.be/BYgv7ur8ipg

metadat 4y ago
There's nothing wrong with preserving the work FUCK. This isn't a YouTube channel channel for infants, censorship is not needed.
- boxmonster 4y ago
  I say, bloody well said Smedley
- thomassmith65 4y ago
  The magazine was created to shock the public, but I posted it because I think it is interesting as a historical artifact. In 2022, nobody is likely to call the police over the four letter words, but some people still find naughty language obnoxious. There's a line I love in a book review by George Orwell: "When I first opened Tropic of Cancer and saw that it was full of unprintable words, my immediate reaction was a refusal to be impressed." My self-censorship of the title was also an attempt, and maybe a misguided one, to signal that my posting the link is not some feckless attempt at being edgy.
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    I find it delightful that you call "naughty" (ex 'naught') expletives, which are born for expressing drastic positivity.
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    > my immediate reaction was a refusal to be impressed Do not get confused: of course in front of the sensational you will oppose "a refusal to be impressed". But you are supposed, as an adequately mature individual, to have well developed filters¹ - exercised since day one of the spark of insight. We cannot assume that you use language sensationally, childishly. It cannot be the default. ¹Edit: I replaced with 'filters' the formerly used 'control', which may sound too active (there is of course no need for active contrast, against common agents, in the mature individual).
- bergenty 4y ago
  It’s not censorship, it suggests a moral framework and a reluctance to be too forward. These are good things.
  - metadat 4y ago
    Is using "curse words" supposed to be immoral now? Shit..
    - bergenty 4y ago
      It’s not that, it’s an attempt to appear genteel or not appear crude. No one is seriously offended by curse words but making an attempt to not throw those out exhibits control. That is desirable.
  - exogeny 4y ago
    Fuck that.
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    Which moral framework would disregard "distance"?
- mdp2021 4y ago
  > This is not a... channel for infants Very well said, because this is why some of us are here.
wccrawford 4y ago
Never stop doing what you think is good when it's not hurting anyone. Don't take these downvotes as a sign that you need to change. It's okay to be kind, even if people don't want it.
- thomassmith65 4y ago
  Thanks, I agree! There's no worries around my taking criticism in this thread overly personally. It's natural for people to have strong opinions about censorship in general, and I don't think anyone here means to imply that the title of this one post is a matter of dire importance in the grand scheme of things :)
deltarholamda 4y ago
You were correct to edit it out, and dang was correct to edit it back in.

8bitsrule 4y ago

Though I've run across many of the early 'underground press' instances, e.g.[0][1] I've not seen much of the mimeo'd stuff (esp. from NYC) which predated it - so thanks for pointing it out! Def. an immediate forerunner. [0] https://soapboxie.com/activism/The-East-Village-Other-Overview-of-an-60s-Underground-Newspaper https://soapboxie.com/activism/The-East-Village-Other-Overvi... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Tribe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Tribe

nonrandomstring 4y ago

I was reading about Oz magazine recently and wondering about the different ways that "authorities" deal with underground publications. Original hacker zines, Phrack, 2600 and the like were born within a very liberal and wild internet. We've lost something today with web, because locality and DNS makes for fragility and easy censorship.

TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
It's hard to stay a virgin when everyone wants to be a unicorn.
kradeelav 4y ago
Would be really curious to hear your thoughts on the censorship of underground zines. :o I find that a lot of kink art creatives run into similar problems with being deplatformed on social media, but there's a growing segment that's thriving on personal sites and webrings, ditto with similar topics to the old hacker zines.
- egypturnash 4y ago
  Don’t forget the constant cycle of “payment service starts up to service horny creators, payment service prospers, payment service gets big enough for Visa/MC to notice that it’s doing porn, payment service suddenly starts kicking off large swathes of the creators it helped”. OnlyFans is the latest in a long line of this.
- dfxm12 4y ago
  In meatspace, underground zines wouldn't be in Barnes & Nobel, they'd be in the independent book store or record shop. Mainstream shops never let just any material be sold (especially when they were leading the market compared to Amazon). So, is content really "underground" if it's on a social media site like Tumbler, FB/IG, etc.? "Underground" implies distribution via alternative channels, and in 2022, webrings are alternative (compared to mainstream social media sites).
- nonrandomstring 4y ago

lofatdairy 4y ago

If I'm not mistaken this magazine is nearly solely responsible for Ezra Pound finishing his famous Cantos[^1]. They circulated some bootleg copies of the final Cantos before Pound finished them, and I believe his publisher encouraged him just to submit his work in more of a draft state. Admittedly, I haven't made time to study the Cantos, and the history is full of additional people into which I haven't looked too deeply. But might be of interest to any poetry fans on this forum. [^1]: https://realitystudio.org/bibliographic-bunker/fuck-you-press-archive/the-fuck-you-press-cantos-a-census/ https://realitystudio.org/bibliographic-bunker/fuck-you-pres...