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Well if anything there are pretty much no clean hands on that regard: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_States_war_crimes https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_St

Well if anything there are pretty much no clean hands on that regard: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_States_war_crimes https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_States_war_crimes The US has set a high standard, nothing like napalming Vietnamese villages in case some guerilla fighters happen to be hiding there. (Or what about airstriking a busy highway and then releasing a "non-ideological" videogame blaming them CCCP/Russian Federation for it) Even on just the political violence side: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://www.wikiwand.com/en/United_States_involvement_in_reg...

fabian2k 4y ago
If past atrocities are an excuse for any current ones we will never improve things. I would also consider this a somewhat different situation than e.g. the unjustified Iraq war as this is a plain invasion for territory.
- 88840-8855 4y ago
  We are told that we have rules in the world that nations have to follow. Breaking rules means punishment. That's the theory. People like me feel sold for fools when there are double standards. I will disagree with the Western reaction as long as countries like the US are not paying their fair share for the atrocities they have done. And you argument is not valid at all. "At least the Americans were bombing those brown people for demoncrency!!" 500.000 dead kids! Albright, the “passionate force for freedom, democracy and human rights”, thought it was all “worth it”. https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/25/lets-remember-madeleine-albright-as-who-she-really-was https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/25/lets-remember-m...
- cudgy 4y ago
  Russia started the invasion in the past, so starting the war is off limits now, right? Are you also saying that killing people is ok only when the attacker does not want to take territory? It’s more justified when there are fewer reasons to attack?
- selivanovp 4y ago
pllbnk 4y ago
Typical whataboutism. Somehow you people manage to discover the USA as a counter argument to everything bad that is going on in the world. If you want to compare apples to apples, then go ahead and tell what has Ukraine invaded so that it deserved being invaded back by Russia? Don't make up your own rules and then play by them.
- selivanovp 4y ago
  Ukraine was turned into a hostile nation to Russia after a second USA sponsored revolution in 10 years. The first time it just resulted in gas wars, but the second coup government really started a war there.
- ghostwriter 4y ago
  > Typical whataboutism. < Typical response to a clear indication of a hypocritical behaviour devoid of any common standards and equalising principles. > If you want to compare apples to apples, then go ahead and tell what has Ukraine invaded so that it deserved being invaded back by Russia? Don't make up your own rules and then play by them. < Ukraine wholly supported the US in their invasion of Iraq in 2003, and did send its 5th and 6th mechanised brigades to aid their ally in a war started under a false pretense [1][2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukraine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukraine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain...
  - pllbnk 4y ago
    So, you are saying putin is somehow selflessly taking revenge for Iraq 20 years later? I'm curious because to the rest of the world it looks like just another attempt at occupying a sovereign nation.
    - ghostwriter 4y ago
      no, that's not my point. I'm saying let's not pretend that there are no double-standards around the current situation, the current victim wasn't that much concerned about their moral stance not so long ago, as long as it was beneficial to them to aid their military ally in a similar oppression of a weaker state. And no one dared to sanction them.
sgjohnson 4y ago
Strawman arguments and whataboutisms are unproductive to the conversation. 2 wrongs don't necessarily make a right.
timeon 4y ago
I'm not from US. My country is also sanctioning Russia. My country was not part of any invasion - actually was occupied before by Russia before. Where is your god now?
- blub 4y ago
  The only sanctions that matter come from the US, Germany, Italy, France, UK, etc. Eastern Europe and the Baltics are just following the lead of the big boys, similar to how a well-behaved child looks to their parent for approval before doing something.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    > Eastern Europe and the Baltics are just following the lead of the big boys This is completely out of touch with reality: Eastern Europe and the Baltics are leading this, not following.
    - blub 4y ago
      The US was planning these sanctions end of 2021. One can assume that they were planning them with the countries which have something to sanction. i.e. Germany, etc. If the US and Germany wouldn’t be in, the rest of the sanctions would be worth nothing.

fabian2k 4y ago

If past atrocities are an excuse for any current ones we will never improve things. I would also consider this a somewhat different situation than e.g. the unjustified Iraq war as this is a plain invasion for territory.

88840-8855 4y ago
We are told that we have rules in the world that nations have to follow. Breaking rules means punishment. That's the theory. People like me feel sold for fools when there are double standards. I will disagree with the Western reaction as long as countries like the US are not paying their fair share for the atrocities they have done. And you argument is not valid at all. "At least the Americans were bombing those brown people for demoncrency!!" 500.000 dead kids! Albright, the “passionate force for freedom, democracy and human rights”, thought it was all “worth it”. https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/25/lets-remember-madeleine-albright-as-who-she-really-was https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/25/lets-remember-m...
cudgy 4y ago
Russia started the invasion in the past, so starting the war is off limits now, right? Are you also saying that killing people is ok only when the attacker does not want to take territory? It’s more justified when there are fewer reasons to attack?
selivanovp 4y ago

pllbnk 4y ago

Typical whataboutism. Somehow you people manage to discover the USA as a counter argument to everything bad that is going on in the world. If you want to compare apples to apples, then go ahead and tell what has Ukraine invaded so that it deserved being invaded back by Russia? Don't make up your own rules and then play by them.

selivanovp 4y ago
Ukraine was turned into a hostile nation to Russia after a second USA sponsored revolution in 10 years. The first time it just resulted in gas wars, but the second coup government really started a war there.
ghostwriter 4y ago
> Typical whataboutism. < Typical response to a clear indication of a hypocritical behaviour devoid of any common standards and equalising principles. > If you want to compare apples to apples, then go ahead and tell what has Ukraine invaded so that it deserved being invaded back by Russia? Don't make up your own rules and then play by them. < Ukraine wholly supported the US in their invasion of Iraq in 2003, and did send its 5th and 6th mechanised brigades to aid their ally in a war started under a false pretense [1][2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukraine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukraine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain...
- pllbnk 4y ago
  So, you are saying putin is somehow selflessly taking revenge for Iraq 20 years later? I'm curious because to the rest of the world it looks like just another attempt at occupying a sovereign nation.
  - ghostwriter 4y ago
    no, that's not my point. I'm saying let's not pretend that there are no double-standards around the current situation, the current victim wasn't that much concerned about their moral stance not so long ago, as long as it was beneficial to them to aid their military ally in a similar oppression of a weaker state. And no one dared to sanction them.

sgjohnson 4y ago

Strawman arguments and whataboutisms are unproductive to the conversation. 2 wrongs don't necessarily make a right.

timeon 4y ago

I'm not from US. My country is also sanctioning Russia. My country was not part of any invasion - actually was occupied before by Russia before. Where is your god now?

blub 4y ago
The only sanctions that matter come from the US, Germany, Italy, France, UK, etc. Eastern Europe and the Baltics are just following the lead of the big boys, similar to how a well-behaved child looks to their parent for approval before doing something.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  > Eastern Europe and the Baltics are just following the lead of the big boys This is completely out of touch with reality: Eastern Europe and the Baltics are leading this, not following.
  - blub 4y ago
    The US was planning these sanctions end of 2021. One can assume that they were planning them with the countries which have something to sanction. i.e. Germany, etc. If the US and Germany wouldn’t be in, the rest of the sanctions would be worth nothing.