5 ms·

I don't know if there's a market anymore for movies like this that won't "become a unicorn". One that comes to mind is collateral.

ghostpepper 4y ago
Collateral is great, although it only came out a few years after the 90s ended (2004). Since then it seems Tom Cruise has mostly been making sequels to Mission Impossible and now Top Gun.
- noufalibrahim 4y ago
  Oh, I don't know. My respect for Cruise has gone up quite a bit. The MI series is formulaic but he does put a lot of effort and soul into his work. Top Gun was a slap in the face to formula films. Some of his smaller projects (like Jack Reacher) were fun to watch too. Collateral is an underrated classic though.
  - chmod600 4y ago
    How was Top Gun an attack on formulaic films?
    - noufalibrahim 4y ago
      I felt that it went against several of the popular things in movies these days. It was comparatively low on CGI. It had a prominent male lead character without a female character supporting in the main plotline. Someone else mentioned on this discussion about Chinese funding. They took a decision than angered the investors there and, I believe, caused them to pull out https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/02/media/top-gun-maverick-taiwan-flag-reinstated-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/02/media/top-gun-maverick-ta... Maybe I'm overthinking it. I saw the first one as a kid and spent a lot of time doing dogfights with my toy planes since. The nostalgia hit me quite hard and it genuinely felt like a nice sequel which retained the macho 80s spirit of the original. I've never felt that with other modern movies.
      - actionfromafar 4y ago
        I think you are overthinking, a bit. IM is very formulaic, but maybe a dying breed of formulaic.
        chmod600 4y ago
        Maybe it would be better to say that it bucks the trend of modern movies?
      - yourusername 4y ago
        >It was comparatively low on CGI That was the marketing line. There's CGI in almost every shot there are aircraft on screen.
      - throw0101a 4y ago
        > I felt that it went against several of the popular things in movies these days. It was comparatively low on CGI. Low-CGI / practical effects is part of the Tom Cruise formula though. You go to his movies to see him do crazy things (with a requisite running scene). Kind of like OG Jackie Chan movies: you watch them for his stunts.
      - philwelch 4y ago
        I sort of assumed Top Gun doubled back on appeasing the Chinese censors because the Chinese censors wouldn’t really be interested in a movie that glorifies the US military in the first place.
  - glandium 4y ago
    Don't forget Oblivion and Edge of Tomorrow.
    - coldcode 4y ago
      Minority Report as well.
- jsnell 4y ago
  He's since done 6 sequels (4 x MI, 1 x Jack Reacher, 1 x Top Gun), and about 10 non-sequels (War of the Worlds, Lions for Lambs, Valkyrie, Knight and Day, Jack Reacher, Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow, The Mummy, American Made).
harshreality 4y ago
Mann likes to savor the cultural and visual environments his movies take place in. That makes them (later ones like Collateral, and especially Miami Vice and Blackhat) too slow for a mass audience. There was an essay I can't find about how non-US, European audiences appreciate that kind of thing much more. Mann's movies don't have endless thrills and they end on a slightly positive to neutral note, not like romances or action movies where the end is supremely positive. Instead, some problem has been averted, but nobody's saved the world. Any positive elements (couple living happily ever after, wounded cop surviving) are tempered by a strong sense of malaise that nothing's keeping the same thing from happening again tomorrow.
- remarkEon 4y ago
  Tokyo Vice is worth watching in the sense you describe. It's pure 90s through and through.
  - sph 4y ago
    I enjoyed it supremely for two reasons: I've seen my share of crime media, from Western to Italian-American and the Yakuza angle is something I only ever seen in video games and I loved seeing serious Western TV about Japanese crime. It felt like "Yakuza Zero: the spin-off TV show". They also have their version of Kazuma Kiryu in the making. And also because I'm done with the stereotype spread by countless weekend tourists that Japan is perfect, everyone is nice and nothing bad ever happens. The representation of the casual racism gaijin experience without making it a political movie was masterful in my opinion. Also, the corruption, the dysfunctional police, the seedy hostess clubs and having the courage of making it a bilingual show. Underrated and recommended.
    - remarkEon 4y ago
      >...and having the courage of making it a bilingual show. Exactly this. That was my hope when I saw trailers for the show and it added so much more depth and realism, having the actors speak Japanese.
- 4y ago

ghostpepper 4y ago

Collateral is great, although it only came out a few years after the 90s ended (2004). Since then it seems Tom Cruise has mostly been making sequels to Mission Impossible and now Top Gun.

noufalibrahim 4y ago
Oh, I don't know. My respect for Cruise has gone up quite a bit. The MI series is formulaic but he does put a lot of effort and soul into his work. Top Gun was a slap in the face to formula films. Some of his smaller projects (like Jack Reacher) were fun to watch too. Collateral is an underrated classic though.
- chmod600 4y ago
  How was Top Gun an attack on formulaic films?
  - noufalibrahim 4y ago
    I felt that it went against several of the popular things in movies these days. It was comparatively low on CGI. It had a prominent male lead character without a female character supporting in the main plotline. Someone else mentioned on this discussion about Chinese funding. They took a decision than angered the investors there and, I believe, caused them to pull out https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/02/media/top-gun-maverick-taiwan-flag-reinstated-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/02/media/top-gun-maverick-ta... Maybe I'm overthinking it. I saw the first one as a kid and spent a lot of time doing dogfights with my toy planes since. The nostalgia hit me quite hard and it genuinely felt like a nice sequel which retained the macho 80s spirit of the original. I've never felt that with other modern movies.
    - actionfromafar 4y ago
      I think you are overthinking, a bit. IM is very formulaic, but maybe a dying breed of formulaic.
      - chmod600 4y ago
        Maybe it would be better to say that it bucks the trend of modern movies?
    - yourusername 4y ago
      >It was comparatively low on CGI That was the marketing line. There's CGI in almost every shot there are aircraft on screen.
    - throw0101a 4y ago
      > I felt that it went against several of the popular things in movies these days. It was comparatively low on CGI. Low-CGI / practical effects is part of the Tom Cruise formula though. You go to his movies to see him do crazy things (with a requisite running scene). Kind of like OG Jackie Chan movies: you watch them for his stunts.
    - philwelch 4y ago
      I sort of assumed Top Gun doubled back on appeasing the Chinese censors because the Chinese censors wouldn’t really be interested in a movie that glorifies the US military in the first place.
- glandium 4y ago
  Don't forget Oblivion and Edge of Tomorrow.
  - coldcode 4y ago
    Minority Report as well.
jsnell 4y ago
He's since done 6 sequels (4 x MI, 1 x Jack Reacher, 1 x Top Gun), and about 10 non-sequels (War of the Worlds, Lions for Lambs, Valkyrie, Knight and Day, Jack Reacher, Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow, The Mummy, American Made).

harshreality 4y ago

Mann likes to savor the cultural and visual environments his movies take place in. That makes them (later ones like Collateral, and especially Miami Vice and Blackhat) too slow for a mass audience. There was an essay I can't find about how non-US, European audiences appreciate that kind of thing much more. Mann's movies don't have endless thrills and they end on a slightly positive to neutral note, not like romances or action movies where the end is supremely positive. Instead, some problem has been averted, but nobody's saved the world. Any positive elements (couple living happily ever after, wounded cop surviving) are tempered by a strong sense of malaise that nothing's keeping the same thing from happening again tomorrow.

remarkEon 4y ago
Tokyo Vice is worth watching in the sense you describe. It's pure 90s through and through.
- sph 4y ago
  I enjoyed it supremely for two reasons: I've seen my share of crime media, from Western to Italian-American and the Yakuza angle is something I only ever seen in video games and I loved seeing serious Western TV about Japanese crime. It felt like "Yakuza Zero: the spin-off TV show". They also have their version of Kazuma Kiryu in the making. And also because I'm done with the stereotype spread by countless weekend tourists that Japan is perfect, everyone is nice and nothing bad ever happens. The representation of the casual racism gaijin experience without making it a political movie was masterful in my opinion. Also, the corruption, the dysfunctional police, the seedy hostess clubs and having the courage of making it a bilingual show. Underrated and recommended.
  - remarkEon 4y ago
    >...and having the courage of making it a bilingual show. Exactly this. That was my hope when I saw trailers for the show and it added so much more depth and realism, having the actors speak Japanese.
4y ago