8 ms·

I am planing on getting a new Macbook soon and this finding does help me decide. I am a bit disappointed at Apple not releasing the M2 (and their pro/max versi

I am planing on getting a new Macbook soon and this finding does help me decide. I am a bit disappointed at Apple not releasing the M2 (and their pro/max versions) for the 14/16" models. Since it almost feels like buying them now will cause me to have an obsolete model in 6-12 months... While at it... Now that the M-series has been out for a while. Does anyone have an opinion on if it would have been better to stick with Intel? I miss being able to select an i7/i9 for my Mac.

bitwize 4y ago
M series is an unmitigated win. M1 Macs can chew through compiles at rates comparable to my Ryzen desktop, while consuming very little power and not even heating up enough to make the fans spin. Apple is two or three CPU generations ahead of the rest of the industry. It's an objective fact that the most performant personal computing equipment in the world is made by Apple, and its power consumption is such that Apple laptops beat PC laptops on battery life by a factpr of 1.5-2 or more.
- csomar 4y ago
  I'm now on i7-12700H. I get close to 5900X performance for a single run (compiling Rust code), with the caveat that the computer slows down during compilation (compared to the Ryzen where I don't notice any difference) and subsequent consecutive runs are slower. The laptop/configuration: XPS 17", i7-12700H, 32Gb of RAM, 1TB, and 4K touch-screen (never thought I'd like that). Heat/Battery life: The computer might get hot, but I don't feel any heat, might have to do with the carbon fiber instead of metal. The battery life is 10-12 hours for normal use and 6-7 hours for software development. Not Apple's territory but it's a pretty good range. Other advantages: Touch Screen / 4K (I find myself constantly using it, works out of the box with Sway/Linux), Dual SSD with Raid-1 (fake RAID), works out of the box with Linux, no drivers issues (though have disabled the Nvidia GPU), great and huge trackpad and keyboard, small laptop size/weight relative to screen size,quite customizable and configurable boot settings and finally a nice minimal design, Finally, running this $ dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/output bs=64k count=100k; rm -f /tmp/output > 6710886400 bytes (6.7 GB, 6.2 GiB) copied, 1.32435 s, 5.1 GB/s
  - metadat 4y ago
    Sounds like a nice rig, too bad Dell build quality and customer service are both sketchy AF. I love the Apple hardware, the only other manufacturer who is close is Huawei, and it's nigh impossible to get these in the USA anymore.
    - jonathantf2 4y ago
      I've always found Dell's ProSupport to be much better than Apple's - Apple just tell us to take the unit into a store while Dell will have an engineer out to site the next day to repair the computer.
    - csomar 4y ago
      Yep. Being able to get Apple support wherever you are in the planet is a big plus. You don't need to buy from a local retailer, as long as you have an Apple product you are covered. That being said, I had a 2018-MBP that its battery failed just one year after the warranty and Apple response was to replace all the motherboard/keyboard at a price close to a new one. So... Also, I think the professional Dell series has a much better build quality than the regular one's. This one is, at least, quite decent.
      - metadat 4y ago
        I didn't know about the Pro series. Still don't wanna give them any money but thank you for sharing the info! Will keep this in mind next time my wife's i7-u8xxx takes a dump on me with random errors :)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- cma 4y ago
  > Apple is two or three CPU generations ahead of the rest of the industry. It's an objective fact that the most performant personal computing equipment in the world is made by Apple This is sort of like how Apple made the best small music player: exclusivity agreement with the enabling makers of small hard-drives so no other companies could use them in music players. Not exactly high engineering from Apple, just savvy business. In this case it is timed exclusivity with TSMC on the latest process nodes. Apple do do the chip layout design, I'm talking only about the process part of the chip.
  - alexalx666 4y ago
    I wanted a dedicated mp3 player below $200 that does not suck in 2022 and I ended up getting iPod Video and upgrading battery and replacing HDD with SD card. They got both business and product right that time
    - metadat 4y ago
      Didn't the iPod get discontinued by Apple recently? RIP. Now our best bet will be that cheapie iPhone.
      - Tsiklon 4y ago
        They mention iPod video, that’s a legacy device with a 30 pin connector, a click wheel and a hard disk. Not the iPod touch.
- tuankiet65 4y ago
  My MacBook Pro M1 (original M1, not Pro, not Max) compiles WebKit at about the same speed as the last MacBook Pro with Intel Core i9. Sure, the M1 pumps out significantly less heat than the i9, but from reading all the posts cheering how the M1 makes them more productive, I can't help but be a little disappointed, as I expect a bigger jump in performance than this. (and for the record, the M1 has 8 threads while the i9 has 16, counting hyperthreads. Not sure if that has anything to do with C++ compilation performance)
  - synicalx 4y ago
    In this comparison though, your entry level CPU (the M1) is holding its ground against a top of the line CPU performance-wise and beating it on power and thermals. To me that feels like a HUGE improvement, it's like an i3 performing the same as an i9.
    - diffeomorphism 4y ago
      No, that is nonsense. Apple only sells $1000+ devices and unsurprisingly none feature an "entry level" CPU. Just like a gaming laptop maker might only sell i7 and i9 models. Nobody would call an i7 "entry level" just because it is the cheaper of the two.
      - synicalx 4y ago
        Ok then, entry level on Apple's scale. The i9 MBP's were the previous generation of "top of the line" CPU's offered, and the M1 is the "bottom of the line". An i9 MBP would start at around $3500-4000AUD whereas you can get an M1 Air for ~$1100AUD. If I was to pay the same for an Apple Silicone MBP as I did for a previous gen i9, I would be getting an M1 Max which absolutely demolishes laptop i9's and has none of the thermal issues.
  - perryizgr8 4y ago
    I used a Macbook Pro 13 (Intel i7) for a little more than a year. And after that I have been using an identical Macbook Pro 13 (ARM M1). The only differences I have noticed are: - the ARM laptop never gets hot to the touch - fan spin up is extremely rare on this, compared to Intel, where it would go full throttle on a video call or if I connect a 1440p monitor - the battery life is at least 6-7x on this These are amazing improvements and I will wholeheartedly recommend this over the Intel Macbooks. However, one thing I haven't noticed is any difference in performance. I admit my usage does not include webkit compilations. I use browsers with lots of open tabs, google meet calls, slack, VS code with python projects. Both laptops have served well, but they haven't blown me away with speed. My Ryzen 5 desktop feels lightning fast by comparison.
- synicalx 4y ago
  I have an M1 in my personal laptop, and a previous-gen i7 in my work MBP and the difference is night and day. The i7 is hot, loud, and can barely last 4 hours on battery (and it has a brand new battery in it). With a 4k monitor hooked up there's also a noticeable amount of lag when doing stuff like moving windows around, and opening my various apps after a reboot takes ~3 minutes before my computer is useable again. The RRP of this device was around $3800AUD for i7/16GB/512GB. On the other hand, the M1 doesn't make a sound and lasts ~12-16hrs on battery. Even playing a 3d game on it for hours, it's inaudible and only warm to the touch (and gets very acceptable performance). Starting up all my apps takes maybe 20 seconds or so and while doing that there's no lag or hitching. The RRP of this was $2799AUD for M1/16GB/1TB.
hocuspocus 4y ago
The 13" M1 MBP with touchbar didn't make a lot of sense then, now the M2 version even less so, I don't know why anyone would consider this model. The M2 Pro/Max will be released later, nothing surprising here. And no I don't think anyone misses having to choose between an overheating and throttled 6 or 8-core i7/i9.
- synicalx 4y ago
  Personally I love the touchbar. I got a M1 with the touchbar and some extra RAM/SSD and it's my main machine, but if I had have been in the market for purchasing one now instead of 6 months ago I definitely would have gone for the 13" Pro still. It has other advantages over the Air as well like active cooling (useful in some edge cases) and better battery life. Having said that, I feel like I'm definitely in a tiny minority here.
- eklavya 4y ago
  As some would say, it's the decoy model that nobody wants. Drives upsells for apple. Edit: almost nobody
stu2b50 4y ago
I mean it's not like they don't have the M2 Pro/Max chips for funsies, they haven't finished production of it yet.
jmull 4y ago
Just be patient… M2’s of various capabilities will be rolled out across Apple’s lineup soon enough.
sudosysgen 4y ago
It would have been better for Apple to switch between Intel and AMD whenever one is better than the other, than to go with the M-series, for the market and the end-user. Most of the performance advantage of the M-series comes from exclusivity on the latest nodes; a significant part of the rest could have been done by asking Intel/AMD to put RAM in the package.
- Someone 4y ago
  Asking wouldn’t have been enough. They also would have to do it, for a fairly small fraction of the CPUs they build (Apple sells about 30 million systems a year in a total market of 340 million (https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/global-pc-market-Q4-2021 https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/global-pc-market-Q4-2021), and that excludes CPUs running in data centers). I’m not sure adding “and, by the way, we’ll switch manufacturers at will if we can get faster gear elsewhere” will help there.
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    That is not true. AMD and Intel both routinely make custom chips with far more of a modification than on-package RAM for far smaller orders. See for example supercomputers where they will make custom SKUs for barely a million units. Switching manufacturers when they get faster gear is a normal practice.
nickysielicki 4y ago
I’m currently using an old 2015 MBP for personal use (with a badly delaminating screen), and I really want to upgrade, but I’ve been put off by the extreme shipping delays when ordering from Apple directly. You can’t get a 14”/16” for over a month. If I’m not getting it until late august, I’m just going to keep waiting for M2 Max.
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  10 mins with a baking soda paste will remove the antireflective coating.
  - nickysielicki 4y ago
    Took a bit longer than 10 minutes but baking soda paste definitely did the trick. Thanks for this comment. All I do on this laptop is surf the web and send texts on iMessage so you just bought me a lot of time before I need to upgrade.
  - touristtam 4y ago
    Honest question: Why would you want/need to remove the antireflective coating?
    - nickysielicki 4y ago
      Because chunks of it start coming up from wear and tear and the only thing worse than not having anti reflective coating is having bits and pieces of your display reflective and the rest of it nonreflective.
faeriechangling 4y ago
>Does anyone have an opinion on if it would have been better to stick with Intel? Not even close. I don't see having an obsolete model as being a huge issue because I don't see anything major Apple has in the pipeline. The actual performance improvements are modest and a major design or addition of new functionality isn't expected. The m2 Pro probably will exist mostly because of having to deal with Zen4/Raptor lake competition. When the laptop comes out, Apple is likely to charge a premium over the m1 model and continue to offer the m1 model. I would probably just buy if I needed a laptop, and wait if I didn't.

bitwize 4y ago

M series is an unmitigated win. M1 Macs can chew through compiles at rates comparable to my Ryzen desktop, while consuming very little power and not even heating up enough to make the fans spin. Apple is two or three CPU generations ahead of the rest of the industry. It's an objective fact that the most performant personal computing equipment in the world is made by Apple, and its power consumption is such that Apple laptops beat PC laptops on battery life by a factpr of 1.5-2 or more.

csomar 4y ago
I'm now on i7-12700H. I get close to 5900X performance for a single run (compiling Rust code), with the caveat that the computer slows down during compilation (compared to the Ryzen where I don't notice any difference) and subsequent consecutive runs are slower. The laptop/configuration: XPS 17", i7-12700H, 32Gb of RAM, 1TB, and 4K touch-screen (never thought I'd like that). Heat/Battery life: The computer might get hot, but I don't feel any heat, might have to do with the carbon fiber instead of metal. The battery life is 10-12 hours for normal use and 6-7 hours for software development. Not Apple's territory but it's a pretty good range. Other advantages: Touch Screen / 4K (I find myself constantly using it, works out of the box with Sway/Linux), Dual SSD with Raid-1 (fake RAID), works out of the box with Linux, no drivers issues (though have disabled the Nvidia GPU), great and huge trackpad and keyboard, small laptop size/weight relative to screen size,quite customizable and configurable boot settings and finally a nice minimal design, Finally, running this $ dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/output bs=64k count=100k; rm -f /tmp/output > 6710886400 bytes (6.7 GB, 6.2 GiB) copied, 1.32435 s, 5.1 GB/s
- metadat 4y ago
  Sounds like a nice rig, too bad Dell build quality and customer service are both sketchy AF. I love the Apple hardware, the only other manufacturer who is close is Huawei, and it's nigh impossible to get these in the USA anymore.
  - jonathantf2 4y ago
    I've always found Dell's ProSupport to be much better than Apple's - Apple just tell us to take the unit into a store while Dell will have an engineer out to site the next day to repair the computer.
  - csomar 4y ago
    Yep. Being able to get Apple support wherever you are in the planet is a big plus. You don't need to buy from a local retailer, as long as you have an Apple product you are covered. That being said, I had a 2018-MBP that its battery failed just one year after the warranty and Apple response was to replace all the motherboard/keyboard at a price close to a new one. So... Also, I think the professional Dell series has a much better build quality than the regular one's. This one is, at least, quite decent.
    - metadat 4y ago
      I didn't know about the Pro series. Still don't wanna give them any money but thank you for sharing the info! Will keep this in mind next time my wife's i7-u8xxx takes a dump on me with random errors :)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
cma 4y ago
> Apple is two or three CPU generations ahead of the rest of the industry. It's an objective fact that the most performant personal computing equipment in the world is made by Apple This is sort of like how Apple made the best small music player: exclusivity agreement with the enabling makers of small hard-drives so no other companies could use them in music players. Not exactly high engineering from Apple, just savvy business. In this case it is timed exclusivity with TSMC on the latest process nodes. Apple do do the chip layout design, I'm talking only about the process part of the chip.
- alexalx666 4y ago
  I wanted a dedicated mp3 player below $200 that does not suck in 2022 and I ended up getting iPod Video and upgrading battery and replacing HDD with SD card. They got both business and product right that time
  - metadat 4y ago
    Didn't the iPod get discontinued by Apple recently? RIP. Now our best bet will be that cheapie iPhone.
    - Tsiklon 4y ago
      They mention iPod video, that’s a legacy device with a 30 pin connector, a click wheel and a hard disk. Not the iPod touch.
tuankiet65 4y ago
My MacBook Pro M1 (original M1, not Pro, not Max) compiles WebKit at about the same speed as the last MacBook Pro with Intel Core i9. Sure, the M1 pumps out significantly less heat than the i9, but from reading all the posts cheering how the M1 makes them more productive, I can't help but be a little disappointed, as I expect a bigger jump in performance than this. (and for the record, the M1 has 8 threads while the i9 has 16, counting hyperthreads. Not sure if that has anything to do with C++ compilation performance)
- synicalx 4y ago
  In this comparison though, your entry level CPU (the M1) is holding its ground against a top of the line CPU performance-wise and beating it on power and thermals. To me that feels like a HUGE improvement, it's like an i3 performing the same as an i9.
  - diffeomorphism 4y ago
    No, that is nonsense. Apple only sells $1000+ devices and unsurprisingly none feature an "entry level" CPU. Just like a gaming laptop maker might only sell i7 and i9 models. Nobody would call an i7 "entry level" just because it is the cheaper of the two.
    - synicalx 4y ago
      Ok then, entry level on Apple's scale. The i9 MBP's were the previous generation of "top of the line" CPU's offered, and the M1 is the "bottom of the line". An i9 MBP would start at around $3500-4000AUD whereas you can get an M1 Air for ~$1100AUD. If I was to pay the same for an Apple Silicone MBP as I did for a previous gen i9, I would be getting an M1 Max which absolutely demolishes laptop i9's and has none of the thermal issues.
- perryizgr8 4y ago
  I used a Macbook Pro 13 (Intel i7) for a little more than a year. And after that I have been using an identical Macbook Pro 13 (ARM M1). The only differences I have noticed are: - the ARM laptop never gets hot to the touch - fan spin up is extremely rare on this, compared to Intel, where it would go full throttle on a video call or if I connect a 1440p monitor - the battery life is at least 6-7x on this These are amazing improvements and I will wholeheartedly recommend this over the Intel Macbooks. However, one thing I haven't noticed is any difference in performance. I admit my usage does not include webkit compilations. I use browsers with lots of open tabs, google meet calls, slack, VS code with python projects. Both laptops have served well, but they haven't blown me away with speed. My Ryzen 5 desktop feels lightning fast by comparison.
synicalx 4y ago
I have an M1 in my personal laptop, and a previous-gen i7 in my work MBP and the difference is night and day. The i7 is hot, loud, and can barely last 4 hours on battery (and it has a brand new battery in it). With a 4k monitor hooked up there's also a noticeable amount of lag when doing stuff like moving windows around, and opening my various apps after a reboot takes ~3 minutes before my computer is useable again. The RRP of this device was around $3800AUD for i7/16GB/512GB. On the other hand, the M1 doesn't make a sound and lasts ~12-16hrs on battery. Even playing a 3d game on it for hours, it's inaudible and only warm to the touch (and gets very acceptable performance). Starting up all my apps takes maybe 20 seconds or so and while doing that there's no lag or hitching. The RRP of this was $2799AUD for M1/16GB/1TB.

hocuspocus 4y ago

The 13" M1 MBP with touchbar didn't make a lot of sense then, now the M2 version even less so, I don't know why anyone would consider this model. The M2 Pro/Max will be released later, nothing surprising here. And no I don't think anyone misses having to choose between an overheating and throttled 6 or 8-core i7/i9.

synicalx 4y ago
Personally I love the touchbar. I got a M1 with the touchbar and some extra RAM/SSD and it's my main machine, but if I had have been in the market for purchasing one now instead of 6 months ago I definitely would have gone for the 13" Pro still. It has other advantages over the Air as well like active cooling (useful in some edge cases) and better battery life. Having said that, I feel like I'm definitely in a tiny minority here.
eklavya 4y ago
As some would say, it's the decoy model that nobody wants. Drives upsells for apple. Edit: almost nobody

stu2b50 4y ago

I mean it's not like they don't have the M2 Pro/Max chips for funsies, they haven't finished production of it yet.

jmull 4y ago

Just be patient… M2’s of various capabilities will be rolled out across Apple’s lineup soon enough.

sudosysgen 4y ago

It would have been better for Apple to switch between Intel and AMD whenever one is better than the other, than to go with the M-series, for the market and the end-user. Most of the performance advantage of the M-series comes from exclusivity on the latest nodes; a significant part of the rest could have been done by asking Intel/AMD to put RAM in the package.

Someone 4y ago
Asking wouldn’t have been enough. They also would have to do it, for a fairly small fraction of the CPUs they build (Apple sells about 30 million systems a year in a total market of 340 million (https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/global-pc-market-Q4-2021 https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/global-pc-market-Q4-2021), and that excludes CPUs running in data centers). I’m not sure adding “and, by the way, we’ll switch manufacturers at will if we can get faster gear elsewhere” will help there.
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  That is not true. AMD and Intel both routinely make custom chips with far more of a modification than on-package RAM for far smaller orders. See for example supercomputers where they will make custom SKUs for barely a million units. Switching manufacturers when they get faster gear is a normal practice.

nickysielicki 4y ago

I’m currently using an old 2015 MBP for personal use (with a badly delaminating screen), and I really want to upgrade, but I’ve been put off by the extreme shipping delays when ordering from Apple directly. You can’t get a 14”/16” for over a month. If I’m not getting it until late august, I’m just going to keep waiting for M2 Max.

rahimnathwani 4y ago
10 mins with a baking soda paste will remove the antireflective coating.
- nickysielicki 4y ago
  Took a bit longer than 10 minutes but baking soda paste definitely did the trick. Thanks for this comment. All I do on this laptop is surf the web and send texts on iMessage so you just bought me a lot of time before I need to upgrade.
- touristtam 4y ago
  Honest question: Why would you want/need to remove the antireflective coating?
  - nickysielicki 4y ago
    Because chunks of it start coming up from wear and tear and the only thing worse than not having anti reflective coating is having bits and pieces of your display reflective and the rest of it nonreflective.

faeriechangling 4y ago

>Does anyone have an opinion on if it would have been better to stick with Intel? Not even close. I don't see having an obsolete model as being a huge issue because I don't see anything major Apple has in the pipeline. The actual performance improvements are modest and a major design or addition of new functionality isn't expected. The m2 Pro probably will exist mostly because of having to deal with Zen4/Raptor lake competition. When the laptop comes out, Apple is likely to charge a premium over the m1 model and continue to offer the m1 model. I would probably just buy if I needed a laptop, and wait if I didn't.