4 ms·

You’re really not getting it huh. I can ask you the same question and you can give me the same subjective reasons I could give you. Why are you so stuck on this

by dgfitz 4y ago

You’re really not getting it huh. I can ask you the same question and you can give me the same subjective reasons I could give you. Why are you so stuck on this? You need to stop looking at this with emotion and apply some critical thinking.

rglullis 4y ago
> Why are you so stuck on this? What "this" do you mean? This thread started because of a claim to the effect of "you can only have nice things if you pay for it", as saying that life in the suburbs is "ugly" because it is more cost-effective in comparison with big American cities. That is what I was responding to. You came after and now you are demanding some "logical" way to establish what's better... what for? My point was only that even (relatively) poor places can be better than suburbs. And yes, "better" in subjective ways. I did not start this claiming I have key metrics that "prove" how life in suburbs is so horrible. > You need to stop looking at this with emotion Why?! We are talking about what we value when deciding where to live. Don't you take your emotions in consideration when thinking about this? > and apply some critical thinking. If I were applying "critical thinking", I'd be giving you the laundry list of "reasons" against North American suburbia: the car-centric dependency, the "soccer mum" culture that exists because kids can not be independent and are not able to do anything without a parent driving them around, the absurd zoning laws that makes all houses stupidly big and expensive (not to mention ugly), the lack of a "third-place", the classism of most suburbanites, the ever-growing expansion that it requires to keep cities financially solvent... But this was not what my comment was about. I don't even want to get into this discussion because it is as boring as the people who will try to nitpick and rationalize their life at suburbia...
- dgfitz 4y ago
  > I don't even want to get into this discussion because it is as boring as the people who will try to nitpick and rationalize their life at suburbia... You clearly have a lot of emotion as it relates to suburbia. Is this politically motivated perhaps? That would explain the vitriol.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Interesting: - When I don't give "reasons" to explain my distaste of American suburbs, it's "completely subjective". - When I do give "reasons", it is "vitriol" that you want to dismiss as "politically motivated". You are acting like someone called your baby ugly, but you really can't argue because you know deep down it's true. In situations like these, it's better to just own it and say that you love it anyway instead of trying to find ways to discredit those who said what you didn't want to hear.
    - dgfitz 4y ago
      things I can't do in the city: Have a fire in my backyard, because I don't have one Watch my kids ride their ATV around the yard Watch the kids play on the swingset in my backyard, or the trampoline Let the kids run around the neighborhood Wash my car in my driveway Work on my car in my driveway Take a tablesaw out of the shed to make a cornhole set Play cornhole in my yard. Watch the kids play in a sprinkler in my back yard Go stimming in the neighbors pool next door Watch the kids ride a bike outside Not put in a new drivers side window because it gets broken every 6 months Not worry about having a place to park my car Not hear sirens all night long Light fireworks off in my yard Let the dogs around around in my yard *Put a zipline in my yard If you feel so inclined to respond to those, I'll add more for you. I lived in a city for a while. I got mugged, my car was constantly broken into, at least 1 person dies every from a gunshot wound, many more are wounded. I can't just send the kids to go play outside. Parking is a bitch, and before you jump on that, cars are never, ever going away. I will always own a car. You must know deep down that you're trying to shove your personal preference down others throats and claim your preferences are objectively better than anyone else. Not only is it quite arrogant, its very strange. You like living in a city, that's great. I don't, that's great. To try and claim that it's OBJECTIVELY better is the stupidest fucking thing I've come across all day. I never ONCE claimed suburbia was better, not once. I don't have any reason to jam my preferences down your throat.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        All of the items you listed as a positive, every single one, are not only possible but mundane for a lot of people that live in proper urban spaces. None of the negative things you mentioned about city life are "transcendental". They might be common in USA cities, but these qualities are far from universal. IOW, if your baseline is a shitty city, of course the suburbs are going to seem like a good deal. But have you ever considered what life in a good urban space might be like? > claim your preferences are objectively better than anyone else. No. What I am saying is that your basis of comparison is very limited and that you were robbed of the opportunity to experience something better. To make an analogy, you want to engage in a "Budweiser vs Miller Lite" argument, while anyone that had the chance to try "proper" beer will tell you that such an argument is pointless. To repeat: the argument in the beginning was about "taking the beauty away and selling it back as a luxury" in relation to suburbs vs big cities and "having to pay for nice things". My comment was not against "suburbs" as a matter of preference, but merely to point out the historical, FACTUALLY BAD post-WW2 urban development in North America which destroyed its cities and gave people no other choice but suburban sprawl.

by dgfitz 4y ago

rglullis 4y ago

> Why are you so stuck on this? What "this" do you mean? This thread started because of a claim to the effect of "you can only have nice things if you pay for it", as saying that life in the suburbs is "ugly" because it is more cost-effective in comparison with big American cities. That is what I was responding to. You came after and now you are demanding some "logical" way to establish what's better... what for? My point was only that even (relatively) poor places can be better than suburbs. And yes, "better" in subjective ways. I did not start this claiming I have key metrics that "prove" how life in suburbs is so horrible. > You need to stop looking at this with emotion Why?! We are talking about what we value when deciding where to live. Don't you take your emotions in consideration when thinking about this? > and apply some critical thinking. If I were applying "critical thinking", I'd be giving you the laundry list of "reasons" against North American suburbia: the car-centric dependency, the "soccer mum" culture that exists because kids can not be independent and are not able to do anything without a parent driving them around, the absurd zoning laws that makes all houses stupidly big and expensive (not to mention ugly), the lack of a "third-place", the classism of most suburbanites, the ever-growing expansion that it requires to keep cities financially solvent... But this was not what my comment was about. I don't even want to get into this discussion because it is as boring as the people who will try to nitpick and rationalize their life at suburbia...

dgfitz 4y ago
> I don't even want to get into this discussion because it is as boring as the people who will try to nitpick and rationalize their life at suburbia... You clearly have a lot of emotion as it relates to suburbia. Is this politically motivated perhaps? That would explain the vitriol.
- rglullis 4y ago
  Interesting: - When I don't give "reasons" to explain my distaste of American suburbs, it's "completely subjective". - When I do give "reasons", it is "vitriol" that you want to dismiss as "politically motivated". You are acting like someone called your baby ugly, but you really can't argue because you know deep down it's true. In situations like these, it's better to just own it and say that you love it anyway instead of trying to find ways to discredit those who said what you didn't want to hear.
  - dgfitz 4y ago
    things I can't do in the city: Have a fire in my backyard, because I don't have one Watch my kids ride their ATV around the yard Watch the kids play on the swingset in my backyard, or the trampoline Let the kids run around the neighborhood Wash my car in my driveway Work on my car in my driveway Take a tablesaw out of the shed to make a cornhole set Play cornhole in my yard. Watch the kids play in a sprinkler in my back yard Go stimming in the neighbors pool next door Watch the kids ride a bike outside Not put in a new drivers side window because it gets broken every 6 months Not worry about having a place to park my car Not hear sirens all night long Light fireworks off in my yard Let the dogs around around in my yard *Put a zipline in my yard If you feel so inclined to respond to those, I'll add more for you. I lived in a city for a while. I got mugged, my car was constantly broken into, at least 1 person dies every from a gunshot wound, many more are wounded. I can't just send the kids to go play outside. Parking is a bitch, and before you jump on that, cars are never, ever going away. I will always own a car. You must know deep down that you're trying to shove your personal preference down others throats and claim your preferences are objectively better than anyone else. Not only is it quite arrogant, its very strange. You like living in a city, that's great. I don't, that's great. To try and claim that it's OBJECTIVELY better is the stupidest fucking thing I've come across all day. I never ONCE claimed suburbia was better, not once. I don't have any reason to jam my preferences down your throat.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      All of the items you listed as a positive, every single one, are not only possible but mundane for a lot of people that live in proper urban spaces. None of the negative things you mentioned about city life are "transcendental". They might be common in USA cities, but these qualities are far from universal. IOW, if your baseline is a shitty city, of course the suburbs are going to seem like a good deal. But have you ever considered what life in a good urban space might be like? > claim your preferences are objectively better than anyone else. No. What I am saying is that your basis of comparison is very limited and that you were robbed of the opportunity to experience something better. To make an analogy, you want to engage in a "Budweiser vs Miller Lite" argument, while anyone that had the chance to try "proper" beer will tell you that such an argument is pointless. To repeat: the argument in the beginning was about "taking the beauty away and selling it back as a luxury" in relation to suburbs vs big cities and "having to pay for nice things". My comment was not against "suburbs" as a matter of preference, but merely to point out the historical, FACTUALLY BAD post-WW2 urban development in North America which destroyed its cities and gave people no other choice but suburban sprawl.