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There are three things that are important to the movie. - Pacing so you don't get bored. - Thematic depth - Atmosphere A lot of pretentious people l

There are three things that are important to the movie. - Pacing so you don't get bored. - Thematic depth - Atmosphere A lot of pretentious people like to ignore pacing as if their brains are made up of pure IQ and anything related excitement is beneath them. Make no mistake, we are all human and we all get bored. Pacing is important and it takes a lot of effort (and intelligence) for a director to maintain that level of momentum for a movie. Let's face it, Blade runner really screwed up with pacing. Ultra slow pacing is understandably sort of required for the atmosphere but while it scores very very very highly in the other areas; there is absolute truth to the statement when someone says that movie is in general quite slow and boring. If your brain is too big to comprehend why Blade runner even has the possibility of being boring then I'm likely too stupid to be communicating with you, you should go read other comments of higher intelligence. The MCU scores highly in pacing and probably is the greatest paced franchise of all time, with 10 years of momentum and a payoff unlike anything ever seen before in cinema. But because of pretension, in general a certain crowd looks at the entire franchise with disdain; even though it's actually much harder and challenging to create good pacing then many of the more serious thematically deep movies I've seen out there. Inception would be movie that on average has the best high balance on all three pillars. Good pacing, thematically deep, well established professional/corporate atmosphere. Though I would say in terms of theme and atmosphere, while quite high, it's not quite high enough to get past certain pretentious attitudes. I would even argue that sometimes if the pacing is too good, the movie becomes too popular and thus "not good" to the elite crowd. At the same time, sometimes if the pacing is too good, the themes and atmosphere get copied by dozens of other movies. The audience sees too much of it and becomes more sophisticated. Now the stuff that use to be high concept to the general audience becomes quite boring. Directors and movies producers are always playing catch up to increase sophistication and bring you stuff you've never seen before. @duxup, I think this is what's happening to you. Bladerunner is so boring that it wasn't copied too much. But the other sci-fi stuff get copied to hell and now the cookie cutter sameness doesn't do it for you anymore. So you turn to the thing that's most different.

cm2187 4y ago
Hum. The reality is that almost every big budget movie today is targeted at a international teenage audience. And goes for the lowest common denominator across the US, Europe and Asia. That doesn’t leave much for originality and atmosphere. Superheros with cartoonish SFX and violence, violence and violence. And some occasional fart jokes. That’s pretty much it.
- deltaonezero 4y ago
  No the reality is many big budget films are targeted towards AS MANY PEOPLE AS possible. It doesn't make business sense to target one demographic. Business people target qualities that hit as many demographics as possible. In short you could say that the mainstream general audience is what the big budget move is target-ted towards. Something like the MCU which is over a decade old doesn't fit your thinking. If the first movie IRON MAN, which "targetted teens" is a decade old then most of those teens who watched END GAME that another movie that targeted the people who watched the first iron man are no longer teens. They aged out. If iron man targetted teens then end game didn't. So most likely all these super hero blockbusters are just targeting all demographics. Don't be so shallow in thinking that only teens are "dumb" enough to like super hero movies. Plenty of other demographics and "smart" people appreciate blockbuster entertainment. End game had clear nostalgia references to people who watched the first iron man and his death only had emotional meaning to those who followed him for over a decade. Younger people in fact tend to think of the MCU as stupid, because iron man came out when they were too young to be interested. I've found people in their early 20s have this attitude and I'm guessing that's you. To me someone in their 20s is practically a teen. Older people appreciate the MCU because their memory stretches back further. They don't see the MCU as a decade of cookie cutter copies because that decade only takes up a tiny fraction of their own cinematic life time. They see that everything that came before the MCU was different and the MCU is unique. Meanwhile young people who've seen the MCU all their lives see it as stupid because that's all they've seen their entire short lives.
  - trzy 4y ago
    Sounds like you are trying to rationalize a taste for terrible movies with frenetic pacing.
Keyframe 4y ago
I get what you're saying (I worked in fiom and tv for eons before switching out), but you can't really do it like that. Comparison needs to include both what the movie was built on, leading to it, and then also to consider directors own body of work leading to it. That takes into account period of work and release as well. What came after (not immediately) is not relevant to the work itself since it's out of period (in future). To even start talking in this direction you'd have to invoke, serially, works like Clockwork Orange, American Graffiti, Taxi Driver, and then Midnight Express to even start outlining the silhouette of what is to come.with Blade Runner.. and that's just a start since Ridley Scott's path is a bit unusual, and that movie's genesis especially so (see Legend he did sonce it's close to the period). That only covers the basics of the basics of discussing of what and specifically why this particular work is the way it is and why emulating the moves later (2049) didn't yield the same. Edit: typing on mobile. Screw it, I hope it's at least somewhat readable.
thombat 4y ago
"Let's face it" - anyone who brings their preferences to the table as indisputable truths held by all reasonable, i.e. non "pretentious", folk, could probably do with some long expository chats with other film fans in a good cafe around the corner from a good cinema.
- deltaonezero 4y ago
  Opinions about movies aren't indisputable truths. There are things that are general truths though. Opinions held by such a high majority of people that such opinions are very close to the truth in the sense that often people talk about such opinions without using "speculative" adjectives. I would say the things that I talk about in my post belong to those "general truths." I would also say fans of Blade Runner don't belong to the majority crowd. Their opinions are well outside mainstream and they <often> view that sort of opinion as superior. I personally view that sort of opinion as "alternative" and I despise people who view it as "superior." Not saying you are such a person, nor many of the people on HN. But you have to admit; such a crowd does exist.
  - sonofhans 4y ago
    So to summarize: you despise fans of the original Blade Runner because they so often view their own opinions as superior. And you see no irony in this. Got it.
    - deltaonezero 4y ago
      That's very closed minded of you to say that. Because I never said this. Probably a better way to put it is this. If you like Blade Runner AND the MCU, or at least understand why from a mainstream perspective the MCU is a work of art that stands on the same level as blade runner, then I don't despise you. If you like Blade runner and you hate all forms of movies that are mainstream blockbusters like star wars, MCU, or all the other stuff and think those things are beneath you... then yes... in that case I despise you. I actually think you don't have the sophistication to see why mainstream cinema is just as great if not often greater then the obscure stuff. It's easy to hate the mainstream. It's enlightenment to like the mainstream after hating it. Those elitest people are just at level 2. They don't realize there's a third level that brings you back full circle. I would know I watched hundreds and hundreds of movies. More then your average person and I started at a very young age.
Terretta 4y ago
> comprehend why Blade runner even has the possibility of being boring then I'm likely too stupid to be communicating with you Step away from the sugar drinks and try a digital detox. :-) People paid to see Vangelis sound and light shows, when there wasn’t even a movie rolling. Surely with a movie attached, the sound and light isn’t that dull? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31437226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31437226 Buried in that thread is a pushback to your premise about MCU, a video that actually excerpts from Inception while taking down those “MCU scores” (pun intended) in particular. Nobody can hum from Marvel movies because they play it safe (aka boring)! https://youtu.be/7vfqkvwW2fs https://youtu.be/7vfqkvwW2fs I appreciated a quote from that discussion, tying back to your hypothesis: “People do not remember safe choices. Only bold, original music.” Blade Runner wasn’t safe, though they almost ruined it with the release voice overs trying to make it safer… Interestingly if you go down the rabbit hole, a reply video to that one points out the Star Wars theme everyone remembers was “copied to hell” from countless old movies before it. That response goes on to say the problem is, roughly, digital production sameness. > there is absolute truth to the statement when someone says that movie is in general quite slow and boring Well, no. Boredom comes from within. When you have too many thoughts, or too few, to focus, boredom happens. Blade Runner is an experience, the pacing makes room to take it in. If you don’t open your mind to take it in, if your mind wanders off, or loses the plot, you will miss the excitement that builds from an authentic experience. > Bladerunner is so boring that it wasn't copied too much. But the other sci-fi stuff get copied to hell This line suddenly makes me wonder if you were just messing with us. Hmm. Instead of engaging, here’s a bite sized listicle: How to Be Less Boring and Less Bored. TL;DR: Lay off virtual sugar, digitally detox, open the mind… - appreciate interestingness - hang out with geeks - enjoy quietude - get out of a rut - read long form - try three things you’d never, three times each - regain a sense of wonder And remember, “Boring is as boring does!”
- deltaonezero 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Terretta 4y ago
    > Probably a better way to put it is this. If you like Blade Runner AND the MCU, or at least understand why from a mainstream perspective the MCU is a work of art that stands on the same level as blade runner, then I don't despise you. > If you like Blade runner and you hate all forms of movies that are mainstream blockbusters like star wars, MCU, or all the other stuff and think those things are beneath you... then yes... in that case I despise you. Lovely. > Go watch the MCU FWIW, I own _and enjoyed in theater_ all the MCU films, and all the BR releases.
kortex 4y ago
Excellent comment. Makes me feel "less guilty" for being bored to bits by Blade Runner (and 2001, similarly). I "feel guilty" because I consider myself a big sci fi fan, and while they are visually brilliant movies, they just drag ass. I have see why they are widely acclaimed in concept, but also felt like I was not not "getting" something. The new Dune is long, dense, cerebral, visually brilliant, but is paced way better in my opinion. There's a continuous forward drive. De-emphasizing pacing is just as bad as de-emphasizing any other important facet of cinema. But we have this dichotomy that action is "cheap" and not as "smart", because it has wider appeal. I think neurotype plays a lot into this. I have ADHD, and the snobby cousin comment about "digital detox" is exactly the elitist garbage that rubs me the wrong way. It attaches value to "not being bored" as if that's something I have control over.
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  Remember, it's "elitist" because the people who think this way are in the minority. Your and my preferences are actually the norm, just not in this thread. Most people will get bored and that is completely normal. Although I will say that I can empathize with why people like blade runner. The good parts are good, but the mainstream audience just places a higher bar on pacing. I also suspect that many people in the "elitist" group also get bored. They just don't admit it.
ivolimmen 4y ago
Ultra slow? Have you seen "2001: A Space Odyssey"?
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  Yeah. The pacing on that is even worse.
darkerside 4y ago
I agree with some of this, including that there is value in a pacy story. But there are some stories that simply take time to be told. And if you keep trying to hit plot points or make every moment superficially entertaining, you won't be able to tell certain types of stories. Nowadays, when a movie is critically acclaimed and I am bored watching it, I actually get excited. What is it about this movie, that I'm bored by right now, has gotten so many people so excited??? This attitude has gotten me into many movies that I love that I don't think I would have had the patience for as a child or young adult. The same attitude has led me to spend most of my reading time on classic literature, which has also been a blessing. I'm sure this comes off as pretentious, but I assure you it is not. "Pretentious- attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed." I care about other people and want them to share in the beauty of the world. When the importance actually exists, it's not pretentious.
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  No it's not pretentious at all. What I find pretentious is when you love the slower stuff but hate all the popular stuff and dismiss pacing as even a relevant factor. Many many people have this attitude and they actually dismiss MCU stuff as raw garbage, too base level for their intellectual tastes. I repeat. Your post is not pretentious to me at all. It's what I come here for. Thank you. I agree with you there are movies that require a huge slow as hell build up in order to deliver a huge pay off. I agree and I like those movies despite the slow pacing. But those movies imo would benefit from better pacing regardless. I've seen people quit watching before the payoff and forever have their opinion of that movie forever tainted.

cm2187 4y ago

Hum. The reality is that almost every big budget movie today is targeted at a international teenage audience. And goes for the lowest common denominator across the US, Europe and Asia. That doesn’t leave much for originality and atmosphere. Superheros with cartoonish SFX and violence, violence and violence. And some occasional fart jokes. That’s pretty much it.

deltaonezero 4y ago
No the reality is many big budget films are targeted towards AS MANY PEOPLE AS possible. It doesn't make business sense to target one demographic. Business people target qualities that hit as many demographics as possible. In short you could say that the mainstream general audience is what the big budget move is target-ted towards. Something like the MCU which is over a decade old doesn't fit your thinking. If the first movie IRON MAN, which "targetted teens" is a decade old then most of those teens who watched END GAME that another movie that targeted the people who watched the first iron man are no longer teens. They aged out. If iron man targetted teens then end game didn't. So most likely all these super hero blockbusters are just targeting all demographics. Don't be so shallow in thinking that only teens are "dumb" enough to like super hero movies. Plenty of other demographics and "smart" people appreciate blockbuster entertainment. End game had clear nostalgia references to people who watched the first iron man and his death only had emotional meaning to those who followed him for over a decade. Younger people in fact tend to think of the MCU as stupid, because iron man came out when they were too young to be interested. I've found people in their early 20s have this attitude and I'm guessing that's you. To me someone in their 20s is practically a teen. Older people appreciate the MCU because their memory stretches back further. They don't see the MCU as a decade of cookie cutter copies because that decade only takes up a tiny fraction of their own cinematic life time. They see that everything that came before the MCU was different and the MCU is unique. Meanwhile young people who've seen the MCU all their lives see it as stupid because that's all they've seen their entire short lives.
- trzy 4y ago
  Sounds like you are trying to rationalize a taste for terrible movies with frenetic pacing.

Keyframe 4y ago

I get what you're saying (I worked in fiom and tv for eons before switching out), but you can't really do it like that. Comparison needs to include both what the movie was built on, leading to it, and then also to consider directors own body of work leading to it. That takes into account period of work and release as well. What came after (not immediately) is not relevant to the work itself since it's out of period (in future). To even start talking in this direction you'd have to invoke, serially, works like Clockwork Orange, American Graffiti, Taxi Driver, and then Midnight Express to even start outlining the silhouette of what is to come.with Blade Runner.. and that's just a start since Ridley Scott's path is a bit unusual, and that movie's genesis especially so (see Legend he did sonce it's close to the period). That only covers the basics of the basics of discussing of what and specifically why this particular work is the way it is and why emulating the moves later (2049) didn't yield the same. Edit: typing on mobile. Screw it, I hope it's at least somewhat readable.

thombat 4y ago

"Let's face it" - anyone who brings their preferences to the table as indisputable truths held by all reasonable, i.e. non "pretentious", folk, could probably do with some long expository chats with other film fans in a good cafe around the corner from a good cinema.

deltaonezero 4y ago
Opinions about movies aren't indisputable truths. There are things that are general truths though. Opinions held by such a high majority of people that such opinions are very close to the truth in the sense that often people talk about such opinions without using "speculative" adjectives. I would say the things that I talk about in my post belong to those "general truths." I would also say fans of Blade Runner don't belong to the majority crowd. Their opinions are well outside mainstream and they <often> view that sort of opinion as superior. I personally view that sort of opinion as "alternative" and I despise people who view it as "superior." Not saying you are such a person, nor many of the people on HN. But you have to admit; such a crowd does exist.
- sonofhans 4y ago
  So to summarize: you despise fans of the original Blade Runner because they so often view their own opinions as superior. And you see no irony in this. Got it.
  - deltaonezero 4y ago
    That's very closed minded of you to say that. Because I never said this. Probably a better way to put it is this. If you like Blade Runner AND the MCU, or at least understand why from a mainstream perspective the MCU is a work of art that stands on the same level as blade runner, then I don't despise you. If you like Blade runner and you hate all forms of movies that are mainstream blockbusters like star wars, MCU, or all the other stuff and think those things are beneath you... then yes... in that case I despise you. I actually think you don't have the sophistication to see why mainstream cinema is just as great if not often greater then the obscure stuff. It's easy to hate the mainstream. It's enlightenment to like the mainstream after hating it. Those elitest people are just at level 2. They don't realize there's a third level that brings you back full circle. I would know I watched hundreds and hundreds of movies. More then your average person and I started at a very young age.

Terretta 4y ago

> comprehend why Blade runner even has the possibility of being boring then I'm likely too stupid to be communicating with you Step away from the sugar drinks and try a digital detox. :-) People paid to see Vangelis sound and light shows, when there wasn’t even a movie rolling. Surely with a movie attached, the sound and light isn’t that dull? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31437226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31437226 Buried in that thread is a pushback to your premise about MCU, a video that actually excerpts from Inception while taking down those “MCU scores” (pun intended) in particular. Nobody can hum from Marvel movies because they play it safe (aka boring)! https://youtu.be/7vfqkvwW2fs https://youtu.be/7vfqkvwW2fs I appreciated a quote from that discussion, tying back to your hypothesis: “People do not remember safe choices. Only bold, original music.” Blade Runner wasn’t safe, though they almost ruined it with the release voice overs trying to make it safer… Interestingly if you go down the rabbit hole, a reply video to that one points out the Star Wars theme everyone remembers was “copied to hell” from countless old movies before it. That response goes on to say the problem is, roughly, digital production sameness. > there is absolute truth to the statement when someone says that movie is in general quite slow and boring Well, no. Boredom comes from within. When you have too many thoughts, or too few, to focus, boredom happens. Blade Runner is an experience, the pacing makes room to take it in. If you don’t open your mind to take it in, if your mind wanders off, or loses the plot, you will miss the excitement that builds from an authentic experience. > Bladerunner is so boring that it wasn't copied too much. But the other sci-fi stuff get copied to hell This line suddenly makes me wonder if you were just messing with us. Hmm. Instead of engaging, here’s a bite sized listicle: How to Be Less Boring and Less Bored. TL;DR: Lay off virtual sugar, digitally detox, open the mind… - appreciate interestingness - hang out with geeks - enjoy quietude - get out of a rut - read long form - try three things you’d never, three times each - regain a sense of wonder And remember, “Boring is as boring does!”

deltaonezero 4y ago
[flagged]
- Terretta 4y ago
  > Probably a better way to put it is this. If you like Blade Runner AND the MCU, or at least understand why from a mainstream perspective the MCU is a work of art that stands on the same level as blade runner, then I don't despise you. > If you like Blade runner and you hate all forms of movies that are mainstream blockbusters like star wars, MCU, or all the other stuff and think those things are beneath you... then yes... in that case I despise you. Lovely. > Go watch the MCU FWIW, I own _and enjoyed in theater_ all the MCU films, and all the BR releases.

kortex 4y ago

Excellent comment. Makes me feel "less guilty" for being bored to bits by Blade Runner (and 2001, similarly). I "feel guilty" because I consider myself a big sci fi fan, and while they are visually brilliant movies, they just drag ass. I have see why they are widely acclaimed in concept, but also felt like I was not not "getting" something. The new Dune is long, dense, cerebral, visually brilliant, but is paced way better in my opinion. There's a continuous forward drive. De-emphasizing pacing is just as bad as de-emphasizing any other important facet of cinema. But we have this dichotomy that action is "cheap" and not as "smart", because it has wider appeal. I think neurotype plays a lot into this. I have ADHD, and the snobby cousin comment about "digital detox" is exactly the elitist garbage that rubs me the wrong way. It attaches value to "not being bored" as if that's something I have control over.

deltaonefour 4y ago
Remember, it's "elitist" because the people who think this way are in the minority. Your and my preferences are actually the norm, just not in this thread. Most people will get bored and that is completely normal. Although I will say that I can empathize with why people like blade runner. The good parts are good, but the mainstream audience just places a higher bar on pacing. I also suspect that many people in the "elitist" group also get bored. They just don't admit it.

ivolimmen 4y ago

Ultra slow? Have you seen "2001: A Space Odyssey"?

deltaonefour 4y ago
Yeah. The pacing on that is even worse.

darkerside 4y ago

I agree with some of this, including that there is value in a pacy story. But there are some stories that simply take time to be told. And if you keep trying to hit plot points or make every moment superficially entertaining, you won't be able to tell certain types of stories. Nowadays, when a movie is critically acclaimed and I am bored watching it, I actually get excited. What is it about this movie, that I'm bored by right now, has gotten so many people so excited??? This attitude has gotten me into many movies that I love that I don't think I would have had the patience for as a child or young adult. The same attitude has led me to spend most of my reading time on classic literature, which has also been a blessing. I'm sure this comes off as pretentious, but I assure you it is not. "Pretentious- attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed." I care about other people and want them to share in the beauty of the world. When the importance actually exists, it's not pretentious.

deltaonefour 4y ago
No it's not pretentious at all. What I find pretentious is when you love the slower stuff but hate all the popular stuff and dismiss pacing as even a relevant factor. Many many people have this attitude and they actually dismiss MCU stuff as raw garbage, too base level for their intellectual tastes. I repeat. Your post is not pretentious to me at all. It's what I come here for. Thank you. I agree with you there are movies that require a huge slow as hell build up in order to deliver a huge pay off. I agree and I like those movies despite the slow pacing. But those movies imo would benefit from better pacing regardless. I've seen people quit watching before the payoff and forever have their opinion of that movie forever tainted.