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> It's a product of its time too. I'd put it in the 80s Cyberpunk bucket where the noir surroundings and mega corporations are a product of xenophobia, basicall

> It's a product of its time too. I'd put it in the 80s Cyberpunk bucket where the noir surroundings and mega corporations are a product of xenophobia, basically. This is a super interesting critique of basically everything cyberpunk, that I've only recently come across. I still don't totally buy the xenophobia angle, because to me it just came across as a projection of hyper-corporate/capitalist. Like it's an extrapolation out from where we were, but the problem isn't that it's foreigners, it's that it's hyper-capitalist. In blade runner the world has been globalized to the point where we don't recognize downtown LA, but that's not actually what's wrong with the world - big faceless corporations and environmental destruction are what's wrong with the world. While the environment itself is heavily influenced by asian imagery, Tyrell and Weyland-Yutani aren't very strongly coded asian. i.e. Tyrell is run by an Elon Musk type engineer-ceo, and Weyland is a decidedly white name to go along with the Yutani part. I'm still digesting this idea tho, I definitely need to re-watch with this in mind. There is definitely some playing with xenophobia there, just... how much? and is it re-enforcing it, or is it challenging it?

jmyeet 4y ago
To be clear, you shouldn't discount the movie because it's intertwined anti-Japense sentiment of the time. It's simply more context. You cannot separate art from the time when it was created. It's why you see a lot of countercultural themes in 1960s movies, for example.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  Listen, if I've managed to get this far without discounting the movie despite the blatant and jarring non-consensual sex scene presented as a love scene, I'm not about to let some mild xenophobia stop me. Some of my favorite pieces of art are deeply flawed. What's important is understanding what ideas they contain, so you don't just uncritically and subconsciously believe those ideas. The xenophobia in cyberpunk idea is jarring to me because I wasn't really aware of it, and if it is there, it means I have some unexamined biases that hid it from me.
  - exodust 4y ago
    > non-consensual sex scene In Blade Runner? I don't recall that... don't they kiss, and then it cuts to next scene. They still have their clothes on, standing by the door!
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      You can watch it if you’ve got the stomach for it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IjO8wsjPqbg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IjO8wsjPqbg It’s… unpleasant, at best. But you’re right it’s not exactly a “sex” scene, since any sex is implied
      - exodust 4y ago
        She says "put your hands on me" at the end of the scene. Her words. He didn't tell her to say that. They proceed to kiss each other, and consensual sex is then implied.
        kennywinker 4y ago
        You’re telling me about yourself right now, not about the movie.
        exodust 4y ago
        Do you also have moral dilemmas about the violent shootings, murder and other nasty things the fictional characters get up to? Or is it just the kiss that rattled you?
        kennywinker 4y ago
        When a movie is presenting coercive behavior as good, yes it does bother me. Yes within the story his behavior is validated - it was what she needed blah blah blah. That’s fine. But how many people were assaulted by men thinking they were deckard? It’s not zero
shadowofneptune 4y ago
> Weyland is a decidedly white name to go along with the Yutani part. British Leyland was a car company which broke up shortly after Alien came out. The implication in the W-Y name is pretty clear: A Japanese company bought out Leyland.
- retcon 4y ago
  Whilst freak examples of effective period Japanese Anglo Saxon industrial cooperation have been known, [0] surely British Leyland is stretching too far. In fact BL's board did claim to Thatcher that they were going to build a new small family car with Honda about this time, but management only wanted more money to avoid hassle with the shop stewards. [0] https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015 https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015 Edited for clarity and language.

jmyeet 4y ago

To be clear, you shouldn't discount the movie because it's intertwined anti-Japense sentiment of the time. It's simply more context. You cannot separate art from the time when it was created. It's why you see a lot of countercultural themes in 1960s movies, for example.

kennywinker 4y ago
Listen, if I've managed to get this far without discounting the movie despite the blatant and jarring non-consensual sex scene presented as a love scene, I'm not about to let some mild xenophobia stop me. Some of my favorite pieces of art are deeply flawed. What's important is understanding what ideas they contain, so you don't just uncritically and subconsciously believe those ideas. The xenophobia in cyberpunk idea is jarring to me because I wasn't really aware of it, and if it is there, it means I have some unexamined biases that hid it from me.
- exodust 4y ago
  > non-consensual sex scene In Blade Runner? I don't recall that... don't they kiss, and then it cuts to next scene. They still have their clothes on, standing by the door!
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    You can watch it if you’ve got the stomach for it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IjO8wsjPqbg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IjO8wsjPqbg It’s… unpleasant, at best. But you’re right it’s not exactly a “sex” scene, since any sex is implied
    - exodust 4y ago
      She says "put your hands on me" at the end of the scene. Her words. He didn't tell her to say that. They proceed to kiss each other, and consensual sex is then implied.
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        You’re telling me about yourself right now, not about the movie.
        exodust 4y ago
        Do you also have moral dilemmas about the violent shootings, murder and other nasty things the fictional characters get up to? Or is it just the kiss that rattled you?
        kennywinker 4y ago
        When a movie is presenting coercive behavior as good, yes it does bother me. Yes within the story his behavior is validated - it was what she needed blah blah blah. That’s fine. But how many people were assaulted by men thinking they were deckard? It’s not zero

shadowofneptune 4y ago

> Weyland is a decidedly white name to go along with the Yutani part. British Leyland was a car company which broke up shortly after Alien came out. The implication in the W-Y name is pretty clear: A Japanese company bought out Leyland.

retcon 4y ago
Whilst freak examples of effective period Japanese Anglo Saxon industrial cooperation have been known, [0] surely British Leyland is stretching too far. In fact BL's board did claim to Thatcher that they were going to build a new small family car with Honda about this time, but management only wanted more money to avoid hassle with the shop stewards. [0] https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015 https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015 Edited for clarity and language.