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He must have some sort of weird US interpretation of communism because "most code of conducts [sic!]" say absolutely nothing about proletariat-bourgeoisie relat

by jhgb 4y ago

He must have some sort of weird US interpretation of communism because "most code of conducts [sic!]" say absolutely nothing about proletariat-bourgeoisie relations in society. If anything, they're an instrument of capitalism.

zdragnar 4y ago
Substitute racial / identity references in place of proletariat/ bourgeoisie in Marx's ideas, and you have modern academia and left-of-left wing American politics in a nutshell. It's by design.
- astrange 4y ago
  That comes from Hegel. You just think Marx invented dialectics because you (like everyone else) can’t understand Hegel. Note if they “take Marx and replace the concepts” it’s not secretly introducing Marxism, it’s another antithesis of Marxism, just like the right-wing ones.
astrange 4y ago
I remember reading Vapor’s first code of conduct and feeling it’d been copied from an SDS rulebook. But that was New Left cultural stuff about marginalized people, not Marxist left. For instance there were at least two rules about “tone policing”, which doesn’t even make sense (what is there to tone police?) and also seems to defeat the purpose of a CoC since moderation is a kind of “tone policing”.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  I guess you mean this document? https://github.com/vapor/vapor/blob/a7f340f64b7182e9e4202a9b211e9eebdd61f370/Documents/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md https://github.com/vapor/vapor/blob/a7f340f64b7182e9e4202a9b... The only bit I see about tone is “Communicating in a ‘tone’ you don’t find congenial” on a list of things they said they would NOT act on complaints about. I see nothing in there that isn’t obvious getting-along-with-others stuff. It still seems to me that it’s helpful to write those things out rather than have them unspoken. It would feel unjust and arbitrary to me if I was pushed out of a community for bad behavior but not pre-warned what was considered bad behavior. It would also feel unjust if i were to be pushed out of a community because people kept saying shitty stuff to me and I complained about the hostility and they said “we have no rules, so they didn’t break any, suck it up”.
  - astrange 4y ago
    > “Communicating in a ‘tone’ you don’t find congenial” on a list of things they said they would NOT act on complaints about. Yes, that’s the problem. This is essentially the only thing that actually does come up on project forums that you need moderation for.

by jhgb 4y ago

zdragnar 4y ago

Substitute racial / identity references in place of proletariat/ bourgeoisie in Marx's ideas, and you have modern academia and left-of-left wing American politics in a nutshell. It's by design.

astrange 4y ago
That comes from Hegel. You just think Marx invented dialectics because you (like everyone else) can’t understand Hegel. Note if they “take Marx and replace the concepts” it’s not secretly introducing Marxism, it’s another antithesis of Marxism, just like the right-wing ones.

astrange 4y ago

I remember reading Vapor’s first code of conduct and feeling it’d been copied from an SDS rulebook. But that was New Left cultural stuff about marginalized people, not Marxist left. For instance there were at least two rules about “tone policing”, which doesn’t even make sense (what is there to tone police?) and also seems to defeat the purpose of a CoC since moderation is a kind of “tone policing”.

kennywinker 4y ago
I guess you mean this document? https://github.com/vapor/vapor/blob/a7f340f64b7182e9e4202a9b211e9eebdd61f370/Documents/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md https://github.com/vapor/vapor/blob/a7f340f64b7182e9e4202a9b... The only bit I see about tone is “Communicating in a ‘tone’ you don’t find congenial” on a list of things they said they would NOT act on complaints about. I see nothing in there that isn’t obvious getting-along-with-others stuff. It still seems to me that it’s helpful to write those things out rather than have them unspoken. It would feel unjust and arbitrary to me if I was pushed out of a community for bad behavior but not pre-warned what was considered bad behavior. It would also feel unjust if i were to be pushed out of a community because people kept saying shitty stuff to me and I complained about the hostility and they said “we have no rules, so they didn’t break any, suck it up”.
- astrange 4y ago
  > “Communicating in a ‘tone’ you don’t find congenial” on a list of things they said they would NOT act on complaints about. Yes, that’s the problem. This is essentially the only thing that actually does come up on project forums that you need moderation for.