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Your logic is so flawed it’s almost endearing.

by dgfitz 4y ago

rglullis 4y ago
Why are you are trying to apply "logic" here? Do you want us to establish a formal system in order to discuss what would be "a better life" lived in different places? So, I'm sorry if you are disappointed because I am not giving you a "reason" to state that life in suburbia is so bad. All I can say is that I have (briefly) lived in the Boston suburbs and I've lived in cities of many different sizes before and - looking in retrospect - no place gave me a sense of hopeless dread as much as Newton. Yes, of course my first statement was "subjective" in the sense that it can not be formally measured or defined. Thing is, just like "beauty is subjective" but we all can still find things (and beings) with qualities that transcend time and cultures to the point of considering it objectively beautiful, there are some aspects of living in "traditional" urban environments that will never be replicated in American Suburbia, which makes life in Suburbia objectively worse.
- dgfitz 4y ago
  I could take your last sentence and flip urban and suburbia. Your argument has no substance.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Can you? What is transcendental about suburbia? What (subjectively good) quality exists in North American suburbs that can not be replicated in any other city?
    - dgfitz 4y ago
      You’re really not getting it huh. I can ask you the same question and you can give me the same subjective reasons I could give you. Why are you so stuck on this? You need to stop looking at this with emotion and apply some critical thinking.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        > Why are you so stuck on this? What "this" do you mean? This thread started because of a claim to the effect of "you can only have nice things if you pay for it", as saying that life in the suburbs is "ugly" because it is more cost-effective in comparison with big American cities. That is what I was responding to. You came after and now you are demanding some "logical" way to establish what's better... what for? My point was only that even (relatively) poor places can be better than suburbs. And yes, "better" in subjective ways. I did not start this claiming I have key metrics that "prove" how life in suburbs is so horrible. > You need to stop looking at this with emotion Why?! We are talking about what we value when deciding where to live. Don't you take your emotions in consideration when thinking about this? > and apply some critical thinking. If I were applying "critical thinking", I'd be giving you the laundry list of "reasons" against North American suburbia: the car-centric dependency, the "soccer mum" culture that exists because kids can not be independent and are not able to do anything without a parent driving them around, the absurd zoning laws that makes all houses stupidly big and expensive (not to mention ugly), the lack of a "third-place", the classism of most suburbanites, the ever-growing expansion that it requires to keep cities financially solvent... But this was not what my comment was about. I don't even want to get into this discussion because it is as boring as the people who will try to nitpick and rationalize their life at suburbia...
        dgfitz 4y ago
        > I don't even want to get into this discussion because it is as boring as the people who will try to nitpick and rationalize their life at suburbia... You clearly have a lot of emotion as it relates to suburbia. Is this politically motivated perhaps? That would explain the vitriol.
        rglullis 4y ago
        Interesting: - When I don't give "reasons" to explain my distaste of American suburbs, it's "completely subjective". - When I do give "reasons", it is "vitriol" that you want to dismiss as "politically motivated". You are acting like someone called your baby ugly, but you really can't argue because you know deep down it's true. In situations like these, it's better to just own it and say that you love it anyway instead of trying to find ways to discredit those who said what you didn't want to hear.

Your logic is so flawed it’s almost endearing.

by dgfitz 4y ago

Your logic is so flawed it’s almost endearing.

Why are you are trying to apply "logic" here? Do you want us to establish a formal system in order to discuss what would be "a better life" lived in different places? So, I'm sorry if you are disappointed because I am not giving you a "reason" to state that life in suburbia is so bad. All I can say is that I have (briefly) lived in the Boston suburbs and I've lived in cities of many different sizes before and - looking in retrospect - no place gave me a sense of hopeless dread as much as Newton. Yes, of course my first statement was "subjective" in the sense that it can not be formally measured or defined. Thing is, just like "beauty is subjective" but we all can still find things (and beings) with qualities that transcend time and cultures to the point of considering it objectively beautiful, there are some aspects of living in "traditional" urban environments that will never be replicated in American Suburbia, which makes life in Suburbia objectively worse.

dgfitz 4y ago
I could take your last sentence and flip urban and suburbia. Your argument has no substance.
- rglullis 4y ago
  Can you? What is transcendental about suburbia? What (subjectively good) quality exists in North American suburbs that can not be replicated in any other city?
  - dgfitz 4y ago
    You’re really not getting it huh. I can ask you the same question and you can give me the same subjective reasons I could give you. Why are you so stuck on this? You need to stop looking at this with emotion and apply some critical thinking.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      > Why are you so stuck on this? What "this" do you mean? This thread started because of a claim to the effect of "you can only have nice things if you pay for it", as saying that life in the suburbs is "ugly" because it is more cost-effective in comparison with big American cities. That is what I was responding to. You came after and now you are demanding some "logical" way to establish what's better... what for? My point was only that even (relatively) poor places can be better than suburbs. And yes, "better" in subjective ways. I did not start this claiming I have key metrics that "prove" how life in suburbs is so horrible. > You need to stop looking at this with emotion Why?! We are talking about what we value when deciding where to live. Don't you take your emotions in consideration when thinking about this? > and apply some critical thinking. If I were applying "critical thinking", I'd be giving you the laundry list of "reasons" against North American suburbia: the car-centric dependency, the "soccer mum" culture that exists because kids can not be independent and are not able to do anything without a parent driving them around, the absurd zoning laws that makes all houses stupidly big and expensive (not to mention ugly), the lack of a "third-place", the classism of most suburbanites, the ever-growing expansion that it requires to keep cities financially solvent... But this was not what my comment was about. I don't even want to get into this discussion because it is as boring as the people who will try to nitpick and rationalize their life at suburbia...
      - dgfitz 4y ago
        > I don't even want to get into this discussion because it is as boring as the people who will try to nitpick and rationalize their life at suburbia... You clearly have a lot of emotion as it relates to suburbia. Is this politically motivated perhaps? That would explain the vitriol.
        rglullis 4y ago
        Interesting: - When I don't give "reasons" to explain my distaste of American suburbs, it's "completely subjective". - When I do give "reasons", it is "vitriol" that you want to dismiss as "politically motivated". You are acting like someone called your baby ugly, but you really can't argue because you know deep down it's true. In situations like these, it's better to just own it and say that you love it anyway instead of trying to find ways to discredit those who said what you didn't want to hear.